Jun 082013

I very rarely disagree with Paul Elam openly.  This is because he gets lots of “criticism” that’s baseless and all around silly nonsense that boils down to “Paul Elam is a godless commie or leftist”, “Paul Elam is a male version of a feminist”, “Paul Elam isn’t doing things my way or making the M(H)RM all about my pet issue”, “AVFM is insufficiently ‘Christian’ or ‘libertarian'”, “Paul Elam hates the white race”, or “Paul Elam and his terminology doesn’t follow my obscure philosophy”.  Adding my own disagreements, while minor, just creates an atmosphere of “see everyone hates Paul Elam”.  Also, Paul Elam (& AVFM) are in the trenches actually doing something a lot more than any of us.  They have a better idea of what would work to advance the M(H)RM from that alone than I ever could.

That being said, I agree with what rmaxgenactivepua said in his response to the most recent Entitlement Princess of the Month:

She also happens to be a former AVFM’er, proving AVFM needs to vet the women more stringently

Yes, AVFM needs to vet women (and men) joining it more stringently, because entryism is going to be an increasing problem.  (Entryism is when a group infiltrates another group, usually larger, in an attempt to expand their political or ideological base.)  We have already seen attempts at entryism in the M(H)RM from groups like the tradcons and the white (knight) nationalists.  In the game world, Susan Walsh was an entryist trying to create a “Game 2.0”.  (In fact, WBB is basically the Susan Walsh of the M(H)RM.)  As the M(H)RM expands in numbers and gets closer to the mainstream, the entryists will get more numerous and more sophisticated.  They will do a better job maintaining a pretense of supporting the M(H)RM than the tradcons or the white (knight) nationalists ever did.

How do we identify entryists in the M(H)RM?  We can’t assume that only women will be entryists.   Even though a woman is more likely to be an entryist than a man, both men and women can be entryists.  As time goes on there will be more entryists.  For now at least, the way to identify entryists like WBB is to find out their opinion on MGTOW.  Since MGTOW isn’t a movement of any kind, entryist tactics won’t work on it.  Thus, sooner or later an entryist will express their disgust and revulsion for MGTOW and will try to separate the M(H)RM from the MGTOW because MGTOW is a threat to what they’re trying to do.  If someone in the M(H)RM isn’t at least willing to leave MGTOW alone, then they’re definitely an entryist.

  17 Responses to “The Need To Vet Women Better”

  1. Thanks for the linkage PMAFT

    Totally agree Paul Elam is a major player as far as I’m concerned, he’s written some of the best material in the manosphere, his older articles on AVFM & the spearhead are pure gold

    The main reason Paul Elams getting a lot of flack, is because the MRA is in the process of a major transition

    The MRA is basically trying to differentiate itself from its MGTOW roots, & alot of people dont appreciate the transition its in the process of

    Atm the MRA & MGTOW are too con-joined, when in fact MRA & MGTOW are two very different movements

    MRA is activism, MGTOW is refusal to participate

    You cant have effective activism in the MRA, if the MGTOW refuse to participate in activism

    Also …

    The MRA needs to stay away from feminist infested gender politics & stop using the language of the feminists & concentrate on mens issues & mens rights

    Entering Feminist gender politics, the arena of feminists, will only attract more people like Kristina Hansen

    Stop giving credibility to feminists & their bullshit theories

    This is the major mistake AVFM is making, it needs to stop focusing on feminist gender politics & get back to its roots & concentrate on mens rights & mens politics

  2. Basically AVFM needs to stop giving credibility to feminist gender politics & get back to its roots & concentrate on mens rights & mens politics

  3. This is true but don’t get overly paranoid like the Black Pill and AlekNovy and spend your days fretting about “the Paleo-Game cult.” There’s a difference between infiltrators like WBB and Mykeru (atheists first and foremost, who make demands that the MRM/manosphere excludes libertarians), and people whose interests simply go in different directions. I think the ‘tell’ is when a separate issue is used to attack or divide manosphere tenets or denizens.

    • I totally agree

      I’m not too concerned about the MRA & MGTOW transitioning, it’ll resolve itself

      AVFM needs to distance itself from feminist rhetoric as far as it can

      What I am concerned about is the censorship & political correctness, especially in places like The Spearhead & Dalrock & to a lesser extent AVFM

      Theres a deliberate effort not to give a voice to MGTOW & angry men, especially as in the early years of The Spearhead

      What W.F Price, Dalrock & Paul Elam dont understand

      All of their blogs are already censored & behind firewalls, theres zero point in self censorship, as their blogs are already censored by most of the major isps & mobile phone corporations

      All of AVFM’s facebook pages are already inaccessible to 80% of the net …

      Which is why theyre only going after the facts & statistics, its to prevent bleed through in search terms

      This is cyberwarfare, they’ll block you using firewalls & corporate filters, & you wont even know it

      All cyberwarfare is stealth

      I’d advise all MRA’s to create their own unblockable darknet social network

      Copy all your blogs & facebook pages over to a darknet like TOR

      Fuck facebook

  4. I guess I don’t see as much of a divide between MRA / MGTOW as some people do. I don’t think most MRA’s are anti-MGTOW, either, unless they are coming from the perspective of traditionalism.

    But I agree WBB was given too much of a mouthpiece too soon.

    • Its the MGTOW who’re anti-MRA

      Also its MGTOW who make up alot of the guys at AVFM, including Paul Elam himself …

      Its the MGTOW crowd who dont want any real activism, ie Rob Fedders on record for saying activism doesnt work

      I prefer the MGTOW leading the MRA anyway, MGTOW keeps the MRA honest … lol

  5. Btw Kristina Hansen was named AVFM senior editor

    She wasnt just a contributor to AVFM

    Her role : “she is called on to help shape content for the site”

  6. Watching for MGTOW-shaming does seem to be a very common way to expose those who aren’t really MRAs, but tradcons or something else. Rocking Mr. E is a good example…he does have some good ideas, but he attacked Barbarosa and Stardusk, and he didn’t even make his argument very well.

    The only problem I see with it is that it isn’t a realistic long-term solution to the problem, not with the men themselves. It’s a good temporary solution, but it can’t continue on a wide scale for more than a generation. Or that generation will either go extinct or raise the next generation as single parents (not good for children). Focusing too much on temporary solutions like going your own way just doesn’t seem very smart when we could be spending more time looking for realistic long-term solutions that could work for a species-wide reform. Both short-term and long-term solutions are necessary, but people are only focusing on the short-term ones. The closest I’ve seen anyone in the “androsphere” come to trying to work out a realistic solution is the marriage reform link on this website.

    • Children are not the responsibility of men, the problem is women have complete control over the family unit. The only answer at the moment is to stop enabling women and stop giving them resources.

  7. Also, while traditionalism is bad because it supports male disposability, traditionalists do have seem to be more realistic than MRAs.

    For example, most MRAs would like for women to be subject to the draft if men are, because that would be true equality. And they are right.
    But what they’re not paying attention to in this search for ‘equality’ is that a military that has anywhere near a large percentage of females will fail and become inferior, due to vast amounts of incompetence and weakness.
    So, in that case, we’d be sacrificing national security in the pursuit of the ideal of legal equality between men and women.
    Women can work and do labor; women have helped men on agricultural farms for centuries, so they’re clearly capable of doing some types of work. But they still do not have the type of physical strength, agility, and endurance that it takes to make a competent soldier. This is a serious problem when it comes to having these people as our national defense. Yes, it would be equal to have them fight in wars just as much as men, but it wouldn’t be a smart move unless we’re prepared to lose to some other country whose military is all or mostly male.

    Even though there is a great amount of strength variance within the male gender, this doesn’t circumvent the reality that women are even less able to win battles than weaker men.

    If you have a group of males fighting a group of females, which side will lose?

    If you have an army that’s 50% male and 50% female fighting an army that is 100% male, which side will lose?

    The reality speaks for itself.

    This is why I say that traditionalists are more realistic. Traditionalists realize that legal simply is not going to work in some cases.

  8. Who is this Fraudtrelle impostor???

    Female hypergamy isn’t real you misogynist’s…

    It’s not like men have to pay to get into clubs and womyn get in for free…

    it’s not as if 80% of womyn have reproduced but only 40% of men…


    and anyone who says such gobblygook is a small penised, hateful MGTOW virgin who reads eve psych crap on his mom’s basement…

    it’s not as if womyn are more sexually active younger than men…


    this hypergamy thing is all in your mind you filthy misogynists…

    well, it’s been a long day…

    I’ve bashed enough low status subhuman Nice Guys ™

    time to reward myself with some mountian dew and feminist cookies nom nom nom…

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