Aug 302012
 

Roosh wrote a post showing his irrelevance.  Paul Elam had this to say about it:

One has to wonder why Roosh would even write on this subject, targeting men he thinks to be losers when he is already so thoroughly ensconced in all that pussy and magnificence.

The point? Roosh depends on painting himself as superior so he can peddle vagina acquisition self-help to guys who really are insecure with women. And it is MRAs that are like COSMO readers?

Sure, yeah, whatever.

I am not saying that is all bad. And I am sure that Roosh is being honest when he says he gets thank you notes from guys who say his writing has helped them. And I am sure some of them actually have been helped. I get the same emails, lots of ‘em.

But it doesn’t change the fact that there is a reason this article is about bashing MRAs instead of his standard fare about shooting his copious load into two eastern European perfect 10’s a day. And that reason is no different than the other ways he paints himself as a god. He will always be pointing at other men and shouting loser, because that is how you sell yourself, and your products, to men who feel inferior.

Maybe it helps them, maybe it doesn’t. Either way, that’s the shtick. It should come with a plaid jacket, a bow tie and a cheap cigar.

It is the habit of a many PUA’s and Gamers to have the occasional outburst about how superior they are to MRAs. And hey, if they need that sort of thing to feel better, they should go for it. We have thick skins and they seem to need the boost in self-esteem.

But any way you look at it, whining on the internet about guys whining on the internet seems a pretty lame pastime for a guy who prides himself on a face full of smegma and an audience to clap about it.

I agree with everything Paul Elam said.  I would add that Roosh isn’t just trying to stoke insecurity in other guys, but also deal with his own.  That’s why he comes up with absurd rationalizations for his failures with women in Washington, DC.  After all, if you think the MRM is completely dead, then why spend time writing about it unless you have a massive insecurity complex?

  14 Responses to “Paul Elam On Roosh”

  1. Yeah, I read Roosh’s post and I agree that the self-aggrandizement was definitely calculated exactly as Elam says. But I think it may be distracting from the underlying point about a lack of successful activism. Elam’s comment just talked about the status play. He didn’t even attempt to counter Roosh’s points that MRAs are still ineffective.

    Strip away the ‘I demolish pussies’ stuff and what he said was the same thing others have been saying in these parts for years. There are those gamers who are different in that they believe Game is only one part what men should be doing, but I’d be interested to hear their response to this situation.

    • But I think it may be distracting from the underlying point about a lack of successful activism.

      Women are optimized to network together to extract resouirces from men for their own benefit; men have no such advantage.

    • I agree that there needs to be more activism, but attacking serious MRAs like Paul Elam is missing the target. Elam, for example, does a lot of work, but it won’t register with Roosh because it has nothing to do with getting laid. For example, do you think Roosh cares about the work done to expose Mary Kellet?

      If you really want to attack the lack of MRA activism, the right place to start is with a conspiracy theorist like Rob Fedders who is against the idea of activism altogether believing that it is a government/elite plot to oppress all of us. Starting anyplace else like Roosh did proves that he isn’t serious about what he said.

  2. It’s safe to conclude by now that PUAs are nothing but the agents of the matriarchy. Their defining feature which makes them markedly different from MRAs, which few people seem to actually notice, is that they aren’t opposed to feminism. In fact, many Game gurus like Neil Strauss are self-declared feminists. Some of them like Roosh have made it their habit to criticize feminism but it is fairly easy to notice that they only do it to pander to a larger pool of men and then make money off them by luring them to the PUA industry.

    PUAs basically want to turn men into tomorrow’s women – that is, legally dispossessed, second-class creatures who derive whatever amount of social status they have from their sexual attractiveness, pandering to the desires of, and depending on the whims of, the opposite sex. Their worldview is inherently matriarchal and gynocentric.

  3. I am sure Roosh has helped many men enjoy life more, and it seems like he’s set up an interesting life for himself, and for that I say kudos.

    But beyond that, I think he is a rather pitiful individual who has made vagina the center point of his life.

    It is him who seems to have this amoral hungry black hole in his soul that can only be filled when he bangs women. He is quite clearly projecting his own feelings onto the male populace at large. In other words, he is defining every man by his own circumstance and that is dumb.

    Even in my most lonely days before I understood how to deal with women, never did I think that getting women was going to solve all my problems.

    I have other goals. Most men have other goals. Roosh is the sad one with the fixation on trim.

  4. First, a word of thanks to PMAFT for the public support.

    And a word to Eincrou, whom I respect but is often wrong. I did not initially respond to Roosh’s points because the entire article, including the obtuse idea that there is no real activism i the MRM, was so blatantly off base that it was not worth bothering.

    I did, however, respond to one of the commenters who brought it up with this

    “I can not only dispute what Roosh is saying about MRAs not doing activism, but I can credibly assert that anyone who really keeps up with current events would hold their tongue on that one.

    And not only is it incorrect to think I am the only one doing anything, the fact is that many people are doing much more than me.

    Check out SAVE and their highly organized efforts to push for VAWA reform and to expose the problem of false allegations. They have been lobbying The Hill for years now. I won’t write an article here about their efforts, but they are well documented at the saveservices.org website, and they are in fact making real progress.

    As a result of AVfM, there are many on the ground groups starting to form in several cities. Vancouver and Edmonton both have new groups with nearly a dozen members. Another has formed in Hamilton, Ontario and Seattle.

    Are these new and still developmental efforts? Of course they are. Everyone has to start somewhere. And in a society that absolutely reels at the mere mention of the words “men’s rights,” it is a very difficult task to undertake.

    After all, there is no penis pass. White knights don’t come out of the woodwork to help us. Just the opposite. Shit, we even have people like Roosh, who hold a lot of the same beliefs about feminism, trying to shit on us for simply existing.

    If you want to point out that our efforts are nascent, and have a long, long way to go, you won’t hear me disagree. But to say nothing is happening in the MRM is like looking at the space program in 1962 and mocking them for not being on the moon already.

    It was 70 years between Seneca Falls and the 19th Amendment, and another 50 years after that before gender feminism raised its ugly head and started fucking up the lives of men.

    This is a slow bake oven, not a microwave. But we will continue the work to find our legs, even if people like Roosh want to get a leg up on our backs.”

    And now, Roosh has responded to it. But guess what, Sir Eincrou, he has not touched a single example of on the ground activism that was provided. And I can provide more.

    • Paul Elam:
      • “And a word to Eincrou, whom I respect but is often wrong.”

      Thanks, but given how rarely and intermittently I make comments anywhere, I doubt that I could be “often wrong.” And certainly not in this case. My description of your comment that PMAFT has highlighted was accurate.

      I’m on board with PMAFT that Roosh singled you out because you are the undisputed king of MRA activism, but even you haven’t accomplished the things Roosh thinks are ‘real’ activism.

      What MRAs seek to do is a lot more challenging than what Roosh does, and it is entirely inappropriate for him to compare his work to the efforts of people working to change society at its very foundation. Conquering women into bed, one at a time, is nothing compared to conquering feminist influence entrenched within the laws and structures of our governments.

  5. Good response.

    All this infighting is silly. To me, both groups are very important. Both are getting crucial information out there to men.

  6. while I do think that all men should understand game and be ready to apply it if the situation warrants it, roosh seems to have tied his ego into what women think of him, and that is never a good idea. a lot of “alpha PUAs” seem to believe their own hype about how game amounts to “true manhood” and “self improvement” pablum.

  7. I’m going to post what I formalized as my position a while ago when Paul Elam tried to attack “game” by championing his own style of game (get a shower, go meet people, etc).

    Game/Pickup and the Men’s Rights Movement both fall under the lager umbrella of the Men’s Movement that’s taking shape. Both are in response to the social and legal changes we’ve witnesses over the last several decades, largely as a result of feminism.

    While the Men’s Rights Movement seeks legal equality for men and to correct some mistakes brought about by overzealous feminists and the politicians that pander to them, Game/Pickup seeks to give men the skills and tools to operate in the social and legal framework that’s going to be with us for some time. Game is just one flavor of MGTOW. Some guys would rather win the game by not playing it, so they move overseas to less feminized nations, or opt out of interacting with women as much as possible. I don’t have a problem with any of that, in fact if you’re going to live in the US the rest of your life I strongly suggest you live in a non-westernized nation for at least a few months in order to get some perspective. Anyway, some guys find “pickup gurus” to teach them how to get sex without much investment or on their own terms, whatever form that may be, or to simply learn how to find quality women to have relationships with. The end-game goal of why people learn to **improve their social skills with women** is entirely up to the practitioner. Again, the usage of Game is only one of several ways of MGTOW.

    Now, my biggest problem with the Game/pickup community at the moment is the lack of infusing their teachings with some key elements of the MRM, chief among them IMO are the issues of false rape accusations and absurd child support calculations, and how fickle women can be combined with how marriage can utterly ruin you if you don’t prepare for contingencies (eg divorce theft), as well as the reality how women get to have choice post-conception, but men only have responsibility. These issues are very real risks for those who are learning how to better their interactions with women in order to get laid and/or have relationships with them.

    If you are like me and teach Game in one way or another, you need to start advising men of these risks! To not do so is hugely irresponsible as far as I’m concerned. You don’t have to go full MRM, but advising them of the issues I posted above, as well as pointing them in the direction of A Voice For Men, The Spearhead, Girl Writes What, and the mensrights reddit are a good start.

  8. One person doing it isn’t enough.

    If you remember PMAFT’s post about the debate being a disaster, on how a good deal of them are feminists, this is a bigger issue than you think.

    http://www.antifeministtech.info/2011/11/the-elam-frost-debate-was-a-disaster/

    Not enough gurus are warning them about all of these risks, they’re leaving them in the dark purposefully just get more attention/coin. Even though they will know how to game women after they’re done, they’ll perpetuate the wrong thoughts in their heads because of it.

    That’s the “community” in a nutshell.

  9. Black Woman Think Tank/ Breukelen Bleu
    ^^^and the abuse and dominion over WOMEN, is the first mark of Patriarchy. Without that, men have no reason to exist. We are seeing that even with white men. Now that WW have the power to divorce, take the children, earn high pay, hold positions of power and legally seek recourse, WM are ENRAGED. This killing of women and shooting up of public spaces is some of that shit bubbling up. A study of history explains all of this easily. In feudal societies, everyday men were given dominion over women and children, as the consolation prize for having to submit to the MEN OF POWER in their lives. Every man got to be “King of his Castle’ – even if that castle was little more than a hovel with a woman and a few kids in it. The male was given SOMETHING do dominate (and protect; bloodlines thru sons) to keep him from RISING UP against the men who controlled their lives. They dare not take THE SYSTEM on, so they took out all that need for control, over women.

    And when that incentive is removed, men start losing they minds. BW NEED TO UNDERSTAND THIS. Women CIVILIZE men. We temper their natural impulses. The desires to posses and control us, drives them to terrible action. But their ability to ‘keep’ and dominate us, keeps them in line. all need to exert external power is then funned through the family – NOT against THE SYSTEM.

    There is sooo much more to this shit than BW realize. THAT is why STUDY is necessary. THAT is what we do in my Think Tank.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/…/angry-young-men…/284364/
    Mens GREATEST fear is of becoming obsolete. Its they’re most primal and visceral biological fear. WIth obsoletion- the inability to wield power and control through a natural or created dependence on what someone has to offer or provide – comes loss of power. When women are not FORCED into diminutive positions, we will DOMINATE. Is only natural. ALL LIFE COMES THRU US. So the sexuality, options, choices and abilities of women MUST be restricted, if men are to retain power. ALL SYSTEMS must work together to keep the female “in place’. If not, she will eventually rise to the top, just as cream does. The greatest need women have for men, is protection from OTHER MEN. Left to our own devices, without the treat of male violences, the human race will STILL go on, with women ALONE as the protectors of the species. Men know this, and this fear creates a visceral need to to control – to maintain POWER. With loss of the type of power men seek, comes Matriarchy. Its the DEFAULT – just like life itself, defaults to the feminine, unless interrupted in process to become masculine. Its why all zygotes are feminine the first few weeks of creation.

    Men suspect this to be true even if on a subconscious level, and THAT is their fear, because for the first 10’s of thousands of years of human existence, THAT was the way things were. The man werent ‘dominated’, but THEY were seen as the “help meet’ to women, which makes sense since WOMEN are what keeps the species going. HELPING WOMEN KEEP HUMAN BEINGS BORN AND ALIVE BY MAKING HER ROLE CENTER TO ALL INSTITUTIONS = Matriarchy.

    Matriarchy NOT reverse Patriarchy.

    But you cant tell these men that. ESPECIALLY black men. SMDH. Under matriarchy, the men still wield power. Its just for the greater good of The Mother Principle.

    The fear of women returning to that level of power, where FATHER RIGHT Is not the predominant determining factor of Power, scares the HELL of of these men. And THAT is why when you remove the incentives of Patriarchy, they start shooting shit up. The fear of obsoletion causes the need to inflict harm on levels that FORCE people to acknowledge your power. Remove the Father Right, and you get lots and losts of angry, disgruntled men.

    And for BM, remove the ability to wield control THROUGH The Father Rite, (control of land, resources, wealth and MONEY) and you get what we see now. All the sons in the world dont matter if you have nothing to pass down to them. And THAT is why they have no problem abandoning the BC, leaving their black children to die, while they water down their gene pool with the offspring of non-black women. As far as BM are concerned – hell! as far as ALL Men are concerned, without Power, Land, Resources, Dominance and the ability to control women and achieve immortality through sons, there is NOTHING to stick around for.

    When it all comes down to it, all this shit is about US.

    (Poor Breukelen Bleu/Black WomanThink Tank she appears to have no idea about external wombs nor the fact that eggs (female gametes can be harvested from aborted female fetuses) and with reproductive technology moving at an alarming rate it will soon be possible.)

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