Dec 262011
 

At least according to this (H/T: The MGTOW Forums):

By Curtis Powers, curtis.powers@iowastatedaily.com

When I look at the various social problems in America, there seems to be one common link: a lack of good men.

Men who will take responsibility for their actions and not fear commitment. Men who will get married, raise their children well, work hard at their job and for their community, and be a voice for the poor and oppressed.

Maybe that’s a sweeping generalization or an oversimplification of things, but hang with me on this. Let’s look at some major issues, for example the financial crisis and abortion. Then let’s examine more root-level issues like video games.

Let’s start with the financial crisis. From an article in The Atlantic, it appears porn may have helped start our financial collapse in 2008. Here are some noteworthy lines from the story:

“A senior attorney — a man — at the SEC’s Washington headquarters spent up to eight hours a day looking at and downloading pornography.”

“An accountant was blocked more than 16,000 times in a month from visiting websites classified as ‘sex’ or ‘pornography.’ Yet, he still managed to amass a collection of ‘very graphic’ material on his hard drive by using Google images.”

“The number of cases jumped from two in 2007 to 16 in 2008. The cracks in the financial system emerged in mid-2007 and spread into full-blown panic by the fall of 2008.”

That’s a pretty alarming report and speaks volumes. After all, what are you doing looking at porn, especially at work? Especially in that quantity. Also, where’s the accountability from other people within the agency? It’s surprising in this day and age that it would go unnoticed for so long.

How about abortion? Another article on The Catholic Education Resource Center’s website, stated, “Nearly 40 percent of post-abortive women in one study reported that partners pressured them into having the abortions.”

“Indeed, in her study of the data, Emory University professor Elizabeth Fox-Genovese reports that ‘the most enthusiastic fans of abortion have been men — at least until they have children of their own.'”

It is very sad to hear that some men would force women into having abortions. A woman shouldn’t have to face that kind of pressure when dealing with an unplanned pregnancy.

She should be able to count on the unquestioned support of her partner. However, in this day and age, most men don’t want to grow up and in this case, take responsibility for helping raise their own children.

This trend is called by some as “emerging adulthood.” More accurately for men, it could probably be called the Cartman Syndrome, which can be summarized with the following quote: “I’ll do what I want, whatever I want, for as long I want, and never grow up unless I have to.”

Therefore, as the City Journal points out, “Single Young Males, or SYMs, by contrast, often seem to hang out in a playground of drinking, hooking up, playing ‘Halo 3,’ and, in many cases, underachieving. With them, adulthood looks as though it’s receding.”

This is illustrated most poignantly with video games. Check out this stat from the same article which is appropriately entitled, “Child-Man in the Promised Land.”

“Those boys have grown up to become child-man gamers, turning a niche industry into a $12 billion powerhouse. Men between the ages of 18 and 34 are now the biggest gamers; according to Nielsen Media, almost half — 48.2 percent — of American males in that age bracket had used a console during the last quarter of 2006, and did so, on average, two hours and 43 minutes per day. (That’s 13 minutes longer than 12 to 17-year-olds, who evidently have more responsibilities than today’s twentysomethings.)”

That is simply shocking, appalling even. Expand that out over a week and it’s roughly 19 hours. That’s a part-time job!

Women, on the other hand, seem to be doing just the opposite. Right before that line describing young, single men, it states, “But while we grapple with the name, it’s time to state what is now obvious to legions of frustrated young women: the limbo doesn’t bring out the best in young men.”

“With women, you could argue that adulthood is in fact emergent. Single women in their twenties and early thirties are joining an international New Girl Order, hyperachieving in both school and an increasingly female-friendly workplace, while packing leisure hours with shopping, traveling, and dining with friends.”

No wonder women make up 60 percent of college graduates today.

Anyway, it’s been hard for me to pinpoint an underlying problem. Though like the previous article I wrote about “Amusing ourselves to death,” it seems to be more a problem of men loving what will ruin us.

However, there seems to be one thing that can help us — men — think about how we’re doing. Ask yourself this question: When I die, what will my obituary say? More importantly, what will your family say about you?

Will it say, “Here lies [your name]. He wasted his life on sports, movies, video games and porn. He died alone in a nursing home.”

Or will it say, “Here lies [your name]. He worked hard at his job, for his community, and stood up for the poor and the oppressed. He leaves behind his wife, lots of children,and lots of grandchildren who dearly loved him and will do things even greater than he.”

I hope that one day I will be able to look back upon my life when I am old and know that I have left a legacy for future generations. I hope that you men can, too.

There are so many things wrong with this that I don’t know where to begin.  It just speaks for itself.

  102 Responses to “Men Killed The Economy By Looking At Porn And Force Women To Have Abortions”

  1. The CDS inventor was a woman and poor men were suckered into her wiles. Remove all women from the workplace!

    http://thisisdiversity.com/articles/all/3878/Inventor-of-economy-crashing-Credit-Default-Swaps-is-an-architect-of-Cap-and-Trade-carbon-derivatives/

    Recently came across Richard Whitmire, apparently a repub(conservative?) who wrote the book “Why Boys Fail” and now in this year’s article writes of women being overlooked for admissions in colleges because of a dearth of eligible men.

    “There’s another, darker, reason that leads colleges to favor men. When men become scarce on campus, women compete harder to win them and some young men start acting like amateur lotharios, or worse. Not a healthy social situation for anyone.
    To avoid that dreaded 60-40 women/men breaking point, ”

    http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2011/04/22/essay_criticizing_end_of_inquiry_into_possible_bias_against_female_applicants_to_colleges

    How deluded is the above passage when nytimes had a whole article about the victimisation of women because colleges are now 60-40 and in the words of an oppressed princess:

    ““Out of that 40 percent, there are maybe 20 percent that we would consider, and out of those 20, 10 have girlfriends, so all the girls are fighting over that other 10 percent,””

    • So when men outnumber women in colleges, women are being denied opportunities. And when women outnumber men in colleges, women have a shortage of eligible peer men to compete for because men are “slacking” and not “manning up”.

      No matter what happens, women are always victims, and men are always to blame. The facts and conditions on the ground may change, but the narrative never does.

  2. @namae:

    Whitmire has a website http://www.whyboysfail.com and I do not think he is very much in favor of boys doing well in school. He seems to be a typical Ed.D type mangina fawning all over the women who are going ahead of the men in education.

    P.S: I thought that the SAT’s were tilted in favor of women so that more of them can attend collge/university and level the playing field with men in Math…

    • When you say “level the playing field”, don’t you really mean “tilt reality” by handicapping boys and giving girls a hand up?

  3. Whitmire has a website http://www.whyboysfail.com and I do not think he is very much in favor of boys doing well in school. He seems to be a typical Ed.D type mangina fawning all over the women who are going ahead of the men in education

    yeah, this emasculate is probly one of the Task Force members that the gynocracy gathers every couple years to “study” why the boys that amerika disenfranchises, demeans, stomps, and hates aren’t doing as well as their Precious Girls . . . and aren’t Manning Up to, you know, save the civilization that hates them

    fifty years of forcing guys out of every cultural institution (except cages) and the matriarchy’s shills Just Can’t Understand why the Evil Males are “underperforming”

    typical display of hypocrisy and self-deceit

  4. Single women in their twenties and early thirties are joining an international New Girl Order, hyperachieving in both school and an increasingly female-friendly workplace,

    Not in, you know, any actually productive enterprises. According to the AAUW (a hotbed of misandry, BTW):

    “By graduation, men outnumber women in nearly every science and engineering field, and in some, such as physics, engineering, and computer science, the difference is dramatic, with women earning only 20 percent of bachelor’s degrees.”

    (If you were to pick some areas of endeavor that aren’t hopelessly fucked up, “physics, engineering, and computer science” wouldn’t be a bad place to start. Coincidence?)

    Also: Note that according to Cunt Pwned, “shopping, traveling, and dining with friends” (i.e., spending money you don’t have on shit you don’t need) is … wonderful and adult in some undefined way, while getting hundreds of leisure hours out of a console and a handful of games is silly, irresponsible, and reprehensible. Ok then.

    (Full disclosure: I used to write games, and still toss off the occasional mobile app, but rarely play them myself.)

    • Twenty, it is no coincidence that physics, engineering, and computer science aren’t fucked up. I work in software (computer science), and compared to the economy in general, which is much more feminized, it is a paragon of efficiency and productivity.

      The International New Girl Order is women being paid for jobs with negative productivity (as in they lower the productivity of jobs men are in) which are subsidized by men both in the West and in China (via Chinese loans). In other words, Chinese men are also subsidizing Western women. The Chinese are making these loans so that Western women will buy their crap. The only question is which part of this arrangement will collapse first, the subsidy from Western men or the subsidy from Chinese men.

      • PMAFT wrote:
        Twenty, it is no coincidence that physics, engineering, and computer science aren’t fucked up. I work in software (computer science), and compared to the economy in general, which is much more feminized, it is a paragon of efficiency and productivity.

        In those fields the reality check is there whenever you care to cash it.

  5. It’s worse than he thinks…one of the first things ‘we’ worked out was that we didn’t care about shaming language. Sorry to piss on his bonfire.

    But then, what’s he worried about?

    Surely this generation of goddess-on-earth hyperachievering wimminz will just power the western world’s economy into orbit using their super powers of delivering total-team-turbo-thrust to anything they turn their entitled heads to…

    When are he and his ilk going to get round to wondering WHY the menz aren’t interested in their 1950’s style utopia? A couple of days on the web would clear up all of his little misunderstandings

    • Just1x wrote:
      Surely this generation of goddess-on-earth hyperachievering wimminz will just power the western world’s economy into orbit using their super powers of delivering total-team-turbo-thrust to anything they turn their entitled heads to…

      I can’t wait for the flying cars, floating cities, space colonies, and fusion power that are sure to come. All invented by single moms (they don’t need no stinking man) holding degrees ending in the word ‘studies’. And who only earn $.70 on a man’s dollar.

      • With the way we’re going, I reckon it’ll be the Soylant Green future…

        • Seriously, I believe we will eventually reach the bright technological wonderland I envision. That’s because there’s enough technological momentum to carry us forward despite the pernicious effects of feminism.

          Scott Locklin, Bruce Charlton, and Jonathan Huebner would disagree with me. They believe progress has slowed, and in some cases reversed itself.

  6. This article is titled “Men Need to Grow Up.” The writer will grow up the hard way when he realizes “supporting women” will not get him laid. In fact, while he was writing this, some bad boy who is “ruining” the economy was probably bedding the girl he was trying to impress with this anecdotal drivel (written so poorly you can substitute steroids or guns or MP3s for his randomly picked “examples”).

    One more thing: “shopping, traveling, and dining with friends.” Wow, those are some SERIOUS pursuits. You need special qualifications to do those things! Better bone up on wasting money, guys!!!

  7. […] Oh, and so did men forcing women to abort their bastard spawn. Published: December 27, 2011 Leave a Comment Name: Required […]

  8. this is their reaction to the fact that the number of men not complying (via game etc)…

    It’s in reaction to mgtows, not acne-riddled wannabe-lotharios. Look up the herbivore generation of Japanese men going mgtow. They’re making the entire nation shake in fear. The majority of them say they’re not even interested in having sex with women. Men NOT chasing pussy en masse is what’s causing the phenomenon, not fictionional evolved mega-magical new ways of chasing it.

    • It’s in reaction to mgtows, not acne-riddled wannabe-lotharios. Look up the herbivore generation of Japanese men going mgtow. They’re making the entire nation shake in fear.

      So much for those who say that MGTOW isn’t going to work. The prospect of male disengagement is terrifying the hell out of the Japanese.

      The majority of them say they’re not even interested in having sex with women. Men NOT chasing pussy en masse is what’s causing the phenomenon, not fictionional evolved mega-magical new ways of chasing it.

      Sexual substitutes appear to be common in Japan to a far greater degree than other countries. They range from the most bizarre types of porn to sex dolls (I saw a video on Youtube where this one guy had about 100 of them), to virtual girlfriends. The herb phenomenon will only be exacerbated by technological advances in these areas.

    • And let’s not forget that the Japanese have been on the leading edge of many social and economic trends from the housing bubble to technology, and this is no different. While the herbivore phenomenon has aspects unique to Japanese culture, the herbivores are coming to a town near you. Western nations will be as frightened on them as the Japanese are.

      • I would say that they already are here. It’s the not small amount of guys who are opting for Guyland that this mangina is complaining about in the first place. That’s what the herbivores of the US will look like — not like the Japanese kind, but the kind who hangs with his bros, plays Halo, watches ESPN, manages his fantasy leagues and the like, all while pulling down enough for his toys and his fun, but not much more. This time has already come, and the manginas (and the more observant women) know this, and are already threatened by it — hence articles like this one.

        • WTF’s this got to do with game, Novy asshat?

          Dont you have a layreport on daygame with your sockpuppet’s to write on your blog?

          The only reason these guys’re turning to herb’s because of the economy, lack of job opportunities, degree’s & education not worth the paper theyre printed on

          No cash, no pussy

          Oh yes then theres hypergamy …

          Women hate beta’s remember ?

          Society isnt quaking in fear of their lack of game, theyre quaking at the herb’s inability to work & earn a living …

        • Enough with accusing Alek Novy of having a bunch of sockpuppets. You don’t have any evidence that he’s sockpuppets. He’s a solid MRA, and his disagreements with game are minimal.

          Disagreements with game shouldn’t be a litmus test for anything otherwise you have to take Susan Walsh seriously.

    • Society isnt quaking in fear of their lack of game, theyre quaking at the herb’s inability to work & earn a living …

      It would help if you learned to read. Reading comprehension is a nice skill to have. Where did I say “societies fear men with no game”. WTF? Are you that low of intelligence or are you straw-manning on purpose?

      I said that societies FEAR men who don’t chase or care about sex or female affection.

      Societies don’t fear men who chase sex (whether these chasers call themselves gamers or romantics or nice guys or whatever).

      I responded in response to fifthdonkeyman claiming that societies are crumbling due to gamer-dorks.

      Dont you have a layreport on daygame with your sockpuppet’s to write on your blog?

      And then you guys say you’re not a cult. You belive there’s just one person in the world who disagrees with game, because it’s the only way to tackle the cognitive dissonance:

      https://omegavirginrevolt.wordpress.com/2011/12/16/gamers-think-there-is-only-one-person-who-disagrees-with-them/

      Fuck, I even read some gamer claiming that angry harry and paul elam (actual adult men who do 16 hours of activism and hard work a day) – “have dozens of accounts and go around criticizing game everywhere”.

      SERIOUSLY!~?!?!? You guys are a fucking joke. What’s with the dlusional conspiracy theories. You’re nobodies. Nobody is fucking registering sock-puppet accounts to fight you, let alone serious adult activists like paul elam. Get off the heroine.

      I bet you guys think the thousands of members and commenters at puatehate, seductionmyth and lifestylejourney and dating groundwork were all one guy pretending to be several thousand people? HOW PATHETIC IS THAT?

      • Hmm …

        Arent puatehate, seductionmyth and lifestylejourne ALL owned by you ? …

        I could be wrong maybe theyre not all owned by you, but every single of these anti-gamer sites, i’ve been on & all I see is you spamming the crap out of these sites

        Case in point, in the Paul Elam debate, all i saw was you spamming the crap out of it post after freaking post …

        I dont call people out on sockpuppetry … but in your case after your insane spamming on Paul Elams site, the number of people parroting your writing style got to the point of being more then a coincidence

        Seriously I dont even want to engage you, bashing Walsh is one thing, but having to argue a point with a well known Class A Chode in the gaming community is another

        AlekNovy, I have been in the gaming community for over 5 years now & everyone from thundercat, to LSE to Jefferies, to Wayne Elise, has discredited you

        You have zero credibility in the gaming community, as a certain commenter has pointed out all you’re known for is spamming the crap out of blogs

        & repeating the same inane comments over & over again, for the past year or so

        When are you going to learn, unless you’re willing to bring something new to the table, in place of game, you’re wasting everyones time, including the anti-gamers as well as the pro-gamers

        Let me tell you this …

        Game has been attacked by Wayne Elise, David Deangelo & Ross Jefferies, BUT they ALL brought something new to the table

        Something YOU will NEVER do …

        Again, i’m not really expecting a sane response as you’re well known for your inability to actually argue a point …

        But again, unless you’re able to bring something new to the table, what exactly is the point of attacking it?

        There are no angry gamers here, we’re just sick of you repeating the same crap for the past year or so

        Bring something new & constructive to the debate of game, or gtfo …

        There are no pussy beggars in game, game like MRA & MGTOW is a self defining experience

        Either address the issues in game, instead of your usual attention whoring bullshit, & grow some balls, or quit wasting all our time

        • Unless you have some proof of your assertions, I don’t want to hear anymore crap about sockpuppeting. My problem with this (and all the other Alek Novy crap) is that it strains credulity. I’m more than willing to admit I’m wrong on this, but I need some hard evidence not wild assertions that require Alek Novy to never sleep and be independently wealthy.

        • Hasn’t AlekNovy claimed that he is independently wealthy before? That his friends are literal castle-dwelling European nobility?

  9. Men killed the economy with porn?
    *******************

    Heh. I remember way back in the summer of ’95 (economy bad then too) when a whole bunch of ruckus was being raised about internet porn by church/family groups and etc.

    A year later the internet was a household word, computer sales went through the roof, and the economy took off like a minuteman missile.

    Go figure.

  10. Hmmm…So a gynocracy requires cooperation of males to function effectively. (It depends on men who still follow traditional values like kids, marriage, job, etc. That’s what feminism exploits…Chivalry.)

    Non-cooperation…That seems like the most effective way for a modern male to respond to feminism. To not marry. To live a single life. To only pursue his interests and not give a damn about members of the opposite sex. (Other than for a one night shag with a condom.)

    Its the same fundamental strategy Ghandi used against the British with his non-cooperative movement, no? To not accept the situation placed upon them, while being non-violent.

    It does explain why there is a growing concern about needing men to “man up”. ie: There’s not enough manginas and whiteknights to make up for women’s need for a suitable, attractive mate. Taking the MGTOW path is actually quite destructive to Western society when one steps back a bit and thinks about it.

    eg: Japan seems to be the example to follow! Women and Govt can do nothing if Men no longer partake in a society that belittles and shames him for the feminist agenda.

    Women and Govt need men more than they realise. I think its most appropriate to encourage MGTOW path in order to remind them that one cannot keep kicking a dog and not expect the dog to bite back or run away for better pastures.

  11. AlekNovy’s infamous hatred of what he thinks Game is (despite spending tons of time and money attempting to learn it)

    Actually you doofus I MADE MONEY off of it. My total earnings off of idiotic gullible dorks runs in the 5 digits. I still own the biggest game forum in this part of the world, as well as random game blogs I have left over from old ventures (they bring in about 500$ passivelly)… I’ll have them rewritten into anti-game eventually, but I don’t have time now.

    I ran several workshop companies, as well as several JV ventures with the top names in the community. I founded the first workshop company in eastern europe long before game was “cool”. I organized and produced the first reality show about pickup a full year before the VH1 show.

    I fucking published books and courses on game, held dozens of seminars, taught it to hundreds of guys, produced shows on it, BUT I DONT GET WHAT IT IS? Fuck, that’s like telling Ron Hubbard’s former second man that he doesn’t “get” what scientology is.

    merely proves my maxim that 80% of men and 99.9% of women can never, ever, ever comprehend what Game is.

    Because it doesn’t exist. Fucking PROVE ME WRONG. TAKE THE CHALLENGE. DO THE TEST at seductionmyth(com)

    CARE TO EXPLAIN WHY DEANGELO, WHO MADE FUCKING QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS SELLING THIS CRAP TO GULLIBLE DORKS won’t invest 0.00001% of his wealth to scientifically validate his claims?

    Care to explain why NOT A SINGLE GAME COMPANY OR AUTHOR HAS EVER accepted the challenge to PROVE there is such a thing as game? And all it takes is a single weekend, which would DOUBLE their profits.

    The fucker spends (as have I when I ran a game business) like 200 hours to tweak headline colors on his fucking salesletter just to improve sales by 0.1% but he can’t afford a single weekend to DOUBLE his profit?

    http://aleknovy.com/2011/12/14/gamers-are-too-busy-having-orgies-with-megan-fox-and-this-prevents-them-from-doubling-their-income-over-night/

    Explain THIS to me. Cult-like holier than thou proclamations such as “you just don’t get it” or “It’s not understandable” don’t count as argument. REASON, SCIENCE, LOGIC. Ever heard of those 3? Use them.

    • Any form of non-compliance with feminism is powerful. Game included. In fact, Game is the reason whiteknights/manginas have doubled down on their whiteknighting, as evident from the subject of the original post.

      That’s if game ACTUALLY did what the sales letters proclaim. That has never been proven. Game WOULD be non-compliance if it actually did what it claims “allow you to control women and get sex out of them like a pez-dispenser”. But it has NEVER EVER EVER been proven to work better than placebo.

      FUCKING PAUL JANKA THE FUCKING MALE SUPERMODEL only gets laid with 8% of all women he games. And he’s considered one of the best in “game”. In technical terms, game is identical to playing the numbers game.

      Game IS compliance with feminism. Game IS pedestalizing pussy. Game IS chasing pussy. Lifestyle journey did a great job of explaining how game pedestalizes women and is actually feministic in nature:

      http://lifestylejourney.blogspot.com/2010/02/pua-scam.html

      • AlekNovy wrote:
        FUCKING PAUL JANKA THE FUCKING MALE SUPERMODEL only gets laid with 8% of all women he games

        At pro-game sites they talk about techniques like social proofing and bringing a wingman. Is that all useless junk? Or just most of it? Just for the record, I tend to agree with you about the limited efficacy of game – we had a similar dialog going on in IMF some months ago. My own beliefs are that indirect methods of pursuing women are more effective (such as going overseas to a country with a shortage of men) than direct approach methods.

        Also many of them have comments about female nature, particularly in groups, that I find insightful. Dalrock’s evaluation of Susan Walsh is a good example. I’d like to know where you stand there.

    • Alek twatanovy looses the plot …

      Watch out for the sockpuppets …

    • What I’d like to know is why a multimillionaire like D’Angelo can’t bag a hotter wife.

      http://www.datingskillsreview.com/david-deangelo-eban-pagan-wedding-video-with-annie-lalla/

      But it has NEVER EVER EVER been proven to work better than placebo.

      You’ve said that genetics plays a strong role in short-term attraction. I’d agree with that. Ironically, I think a certain commenter is really saying a similar thing in a different way, in his statement that 80% of men won’t ‘get’ game. A lot of men won’t get it because they can’t. There’s a genetic ceiling in their level of physical attributes, social competence, and personal charisma.

      My conclusion is that no matter how you slice it, game has very limited usefulness to most men. The other three horsemen that will pop the misandry bubble and reduce female sexual power are far more significant.

      • I don’t know anything about Paul Janka.

        But sleeping with 8% of women that a man cold approaches is very good conversion. It takes all of two days to do 12 approaches. Most men would be thrilled if they could fuck one of every 12 women the approach

        Actually, it’s pretty incredible that his closing ratio is that high. We discussed this at IMF in reference to Advocatus Diaboli’s use of escorts. Alek mentioned that Janka had used cold approaches to sleep with 138 woman in about a ten-year time frame. That’s fairly impressive until you look at a superstar like Wilt Chamberlain who claimed to have slept with over 20,000 women. Surely that’s a vast exaggeration, but having slept with thousands of women is plausible.

        What am I getting at with this? Alek’s conclusion was that cold approaches are an inefficient method of bedding women. The best way of getting them was putting yourself in a position where they come to you. Obviously we can’t all become Wilt Chamberlains but the groupie phenomenon also exists at a much more modest level – say if you form your own moderately successful indie band.

        PMAFT”s Sunday morning nightclub is a less well-known version of this strategy. Find a venue of horny women who want to bag a husband before their reproductive clock unwinds, then go to work.

        As far as cold approaches goes, he rates it as below using escorts in terms of efficiency. A look at the numbers shows he’s right – at $200-$300 per escort, it’s easily possible to match or exceed Janka’s 10-year lay count at a price comparable to a typical bridezilla wedding. The numbers get much better for a man who goes the sexual tourism route.

        • People that have met Paul Janka in person and have vouched for him said that he seemed ‘cool’. However, he’s a Harvard-grad, who majored in physics and earns his living as an SAT tutor. He also keeps meticulous notes on his Game, which is how we know his conversion rate.

          I find it unlikely for Janka to not have at least mild aspergers, and even if he didn’t his no doubt stratospheric IQ would make normal socialization with non-genius women difficult, and more boring than usual.

    • Novy,

      What are your books? I’d like to read them. Do you have any links? I’ll pay double the sticker price for any of these titles.

  12. Huge difference. Wilt Chamberlain (as well as Gene SImmons, Hugh Hefner, etc.), by being famous, had tons of women throw themselves at him. This means they did 99% of the work.

    A PUA has to do approaches. Remember, half of getting laid is logistics.

    Then it may make more sense to become a star in your chosen field than do PUA, even at a fairly low level. Arnold Schwarzenegger had women panting after him even when he he was entering only regional bodybuilding competitions. Small-time bands and minor-league baseball players also have their share of groupies.

    You are assuming that Janka had sex with each woman once.

    Ok, that’s a fair point. But once she gets to be much more than once she falls into girlfriend or fuck-buddy status. Which can be high maintenance and also undermine his moving on to the next conquest.

    Alek calculated Janka’s average time per new conquest at 40 hours per woman. Multiply that out by 138 and you get 5520 hours, Over a 10 year period of time that averages out to about 10 hours per week spent on looking for new women. Since Janka’s made PUA his full-time job (about 40 hours) he must be using his remaining time to maintain his relationships. Presumably he was having sex with them but he had to be doing a lot of other things.

    Not to mention that prostitution is illegal in most of America (something AD never addresses),

    He may simply avoid the streetwalker and CraigsList types, where the risk is greatest and use discreet, vetted services.

    Using escorts (most of whom would be 6s or 7s in looks at best)

    A 5-minute search of backpage.com gave me several pictures of women who are 9s or 10s. I’d post it but couldn’t get it past the spam filter. I find it hard to believe it’s that hard to find an escort that hot.

    No one who uses ‘escorts’ as their only outlet is in an enviable position,

    What about as a supplement to his regular outlet? I didn’t see either AlekNovy or A.D. push an exclusive use of escorts. Alek also pointed out that it’s far from uncommon for famous, powerful men to get caught with prostitutes. Think of Charlie Sheen – if anyone should have game, it would be him.

    and I guarantee that if you poll men on whether they would rather be Advocatus Diaboli or Paul Janka, about 100% of them will choose the latter.

    I consider A.D. to be too morally repugnant (none of this has little to do with his use of escorts, which I regard as his personal business) to ever want to be him. As far as Janka goes, I wouldn’t want to be him either. I’m still standing by my current belief that he could have invested his time elsewhere and shown a much better ROI. 5,000+ hours is falling into the range of time where one could become an expert in a field.

    Anyway, Delusion Damage wrote an airtight, logically unassailable rebuttal to the notion that using escorts is superior to success with Game.

    I’ll take a look.

  13. “I’m still looking for evidence that Alek Novy is sockpuppeting, involved with LR & Denise Romano, & all the other crap he’s accused of. So far no one has even attempted to provide any evidence whatsoever. The longer this goes on, the more I’m convinced it’s BS.”

    There have been a lot of anti-game sockpuppets lately, like George/Harry/Greg/John/Johnny/Titian/Kevin, but I’m almost certain that’s NOT Alek. (Some think it’s Tokyojesusfist, but I can’t say as TJF’s heyday in the ‘sphere was before my time. )

    Besides, it’s not like Alek could effectively sockpuppet even if he wanted to (and I have no reason to believe that he would want to, for that matter), because his distinct posting style (particularly when he’s posting about game) would give him away anyway.

    • I would add that, regardless of what one thinks of someone’s views re: Game, accusing someone of working with Denise Romano, LR and the false rape industry is a very serious charge to make around these parts, and not one that should be made without strong supporting evidence.

      • I was referring to these … George/Harry/Greg/John/Johnny/Titian/Kevin

        Theres also George & Paragon on Dalrocks site

        If you look at deansdales blog, you can see harry & aleknovy spamming the crap out of that place, pretty clearly …

        & I mean walls & walls of text …

        Not linking, as i dont want to spread alek novies drivel …

  14. Simple Googling pulled up a ton of threads on Lady Raine where AlekNovy is seeking to join up with with her :

    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=AlekNovy+Lady+Raine&pbx=1&oq=AlekNovy+Lady+Raine&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1237l5872l0l6174l21l17l1l0l0l0l391l2872l5.6.5.1l18l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=8eeef67bd8da93e5&biw=1201&bih=1330

    Googling also got me to this link at GLPiggy. So Chuck certainly has AlekNovy’s number :

    http://glpiggy.net/2011/11/14/on-evil-and-sandusky/#comment-27593

  15. PUA4Life wrote:
    Simple Googling pulled up a ton of threads on Lady Raine where AlekNovy is seeking to join up with with her :

    Googling also got me to this link at GLPiggy. So Chuck certainly has AlekNovy’s number :

    (links omitted)

    Already did a Google search like that. Looking at a bunch of gamers write that they can”t stand AlekNovy doesn’t impress me, not by itself. Some of them simply sound butthurt because he questions their belief system.

    (Link from another post)
    http://ladyraine.wordpress.com/the-unedited-roissy-exposed-series/

    I’m still not seeing where they’re conspiring against Roissy to get him shut down. As far as I can tell, LR is the only one who went after Roissy to expose his real-world identity. Supposedly it was in revenge for him posting her pics with her son (they were already online), posting a porn video suggesting that she was in it, and several other personal insults.

    For the record, I’m definitely uncomfortable with the idea of Alek cozying up to her on her blog. This is the same woman who wrote the following PMS-generated drivel:

    http://www.antifeministtech.info/2010/04/haters-lady-raine-fails-miserably/

    If he’s serious about getting his message across in the manosphere, he should realize he may be judged by the company he keeps.

    • I looked through that google search too. Half the results were only had to do with one of them. The other half were people talking about AlekNovy or it was a link to those few comments at http://ladyraine.wordpress.com/the-unedited-roissy-exposed-series/. From that link I don’t see him conspiring with LR at all. So far that’s it so I have to agree it’s all about being butthurt.

      If he’s serious about getting his message across in the manosphere, he should realize he may be judged by the company he keeps.

      This is true, but my understanding is that AlekNovy is relatively new to the manosphere. Someone new to the manosphere isn’t going to be aware all of this history like the Roissy/LR fiasco.

      • This is true, but my understanding is that AlekNovy is relatively new to the manosphere. Someone new to the manosphere isn’t going to be aware all of this history like the Roissy/LR fiasco.

        Fair enough, I should take that into account. And I really want to give Alek the benefit of the doubt, especially when the evidence against him is so flimsy. So I apologize to him for my strong words, even though I stand by my conviction that everyone should stay the hell away from Lady Raine.

        In LR’s thread, it’s hinted that Roissy lost his job due to the whole flap. No matter what anyone thinks about Roissy, I think we can all agree that a spillover to meatspace is a very uncool thing.

      • AlekNovy has been around forever. He’s not new. His blog posts go back to at least 2.5 years ago, and are filled with MRA cliches, with quotes from Warren Farrell and links to MND.

  16. Come on, the evidence is pretty strong. I guess you need even more handholding.

    AlekNovy specifically agrees with Lady Raine’s goal to get Roissy shut down :

    http://ladyraine.wordpress.com/the-unedited-roissy-exposed-series/#comment-23672

    Quote :

    “I think we have a duty to destroy the PUA cult.”

    That sounds like an appeal to join forces, as well as agreement with Lady Raine’s attack on Roissy’s real life. Maybe you should ask Alek what his intentions were.

    I think Ray Manta will come around to the obvious truth here. Pro-male looks to be in denial.

    Why does anyone think AlekNovy is an MRA? What does AlekNovy do to support MRA goals?

    Anyhoo, most other people will see this for what it is, even if Pro-male wants to say, “That comment means he just encourages and supports her goal to shut Roissy down! He didn’t actually ASSIST her!”

    • Hi PUA4life,

      I read your original post earlier, & I agree he does look as if he tried to join forces with LR, but that’s his MO, try & join with the most discredited rejects he can find, for example his most recent attempts at joining retards like Omegavirginrevolt & onestdv

      PMAFT if you want proof AlekNovy is no MRA, read his comments PUA4LIFE provides on Lady Raines site, there’s no way a MRA would agree with a hardcore feminist like Raine, not to mention the dialogue he tries to create with her

      I’ve bumped into AlekNovy for about 3 years now, for some reason he’s been deliberately trying to build up some sort of network against the game & pua industry

      If you’re a real MRA, you dont try & tear down something built clearly by men

      Even Paul Elam grudgingly accepts the need for game

      If you look clearly at AlekNovy, he’s basically trying to tear down one of the largest communities created by men for men, the PUA & game community

      What self respecting MRA would ever do that?

      Not only that, but he’s spent over 3 or 4 years attacking a large community run by men, again what self respecting MRA would ever spend so many years attacking a community of men?

      Aleknovy is anything but an MRA

      Also if you look at his earlier post here, he admits he runs multiple sites to make it look like some sort of movement against game, when it is in fact just him & about 3 or 4 people

      As I mentioned earlier

      If you look at deansdales blog, you can see harry & aleknovy spamming the crap out of his blog, with their inane anti-game rants

      I’ve seen the exact same arguements & rants copy & pasted on dalrocks blog & in the paul elam debate

      Under the pseudonyms of George & Paragon on Dalrocks blog

      & Harry & Alek Novy in the paul elam debate, & Harry & Alek Novy at deansdales

      So yea, PMAFT if you wanted evidence of Aleknov’s sockpuppetting there it is …

      AlekNovy is essentially a well known troll in the PUA & gaming community

      The only reason he gets a pass in the manosphere, is basically no one knows how he operates & his MO

      Essentially if you have a decent knowledge of game, none of his arguements have any merit

      Combine that with his clear agreement with people like Lady Raine, & Omegavirgin Revolt, & OneSTDV, he is no MRA

      • Rmaxd wrote:
        If you look clearly at AlekNovy, he’s basically trying to tear down one of the largest communities created by men for men, the PUA & game community

        I’ve seen him throw out a challenge to gamers – does it work or doesn’t it?

        http://www.seductionmyth.com/just_prove_it/the-experiment/

        Sorry, but I don’t see it as a betrayal to ask for evidence whether something works.

        Let me put it another way – no matter what his motives are, why not ask gamers such as Roissy, Roosh, D’Angelo, and Mystery for some objective experimental evidence that game works? D’Angelo is wealthy – surely he could come up with something.

        • Sorry, but I don’t see it as a betrayal to ask for evidence whether something works.

          It’s not betrayal to want evidence. I think there’s a lot of room for improvement in game given how much bullshit there is in it. If AlekNovy has something better, then I see no reason not to listen (provided it is actually better).

    • “I think we have a duty to destroy the PUA cult.”

      Here’s the full paragraph.

      I think we have a duty to to destroy the PUA-cult, and that can’t be achived by just mockery (which I do a lot of). Mockery without clear alternatives just makes them stronger, they develop an “us vs. them” mentality. Oh, people bash this stuff – so game must be true! – goes their logic.

      If AlekNovy wants to “destroy game” by coming up with superior alternative that works better, I don’t see what the problem is. It’s silly to think game is perfect and can’t be improved.

      “That comment means he just encourages and supports her goal to shut Roissy down! He didn’t actually ASSIST her!”

      He doesn’t even say that he’s trying to shut Roissy down at all especially since his first comment on that page is 18 months after everything with Roissy and LR happened.

      • Alek HAS offered excellent alternatives to game, both in the approach guide on seductionmyth.com and in his anti-game piece on his blog. It’s excellent advice that can help most men.

        It won’t give you superhuman powers to bed women, lol, but it is based on science and a respect for FACTS, not adolescent fantasies, and will save you lots of wasted gamer-effort and hurt to your dignity as you pursue women in the pathetic game fashion and change your behavior to pander to them, like a man with no spine.

        Basically it involves rejecting once and for all the silly idea that you can create sexual attraction in women through behavior, and to learn to channel your effort into finding those women who are into your type, while avoiding being socially antagonistic. It is wroth emphasizing that instead of learning to act like a jerk or an asshole, you instead learn to socially calibrate yourself, which essentially means learning to assert yourself without antagonizing or dis-respecting the person you are interacting with. In other words you respect yourself, your time, and your needs, but you respect THEM too, and learn to not antagonize them pointlessly. That’s worth emphasizing because in the real world of socially calibrated people, it’s the complete opposite of being a jerk or an asshole, lol.

  17. PUA4life wrote:

    AlekNovy quote:
    “I think we have a duty to destroy the PUA cult.”

    That doesn’t translate to “I think we have a duty to out Roissy and get him in trouble with his employer”.

    That sounds like an appeal to join forces

    That’s certainly not a good idea.

    , as well as agreement with Lady Raine’s attack on Roissy’s real life.

    Unproven so far.

    Maybe you should ask Alek what his intentions were.

    Ok, I’m asking. Alek, what were your intentions?

    I think Ray Manta will come around to the obvious truth here. Pro-male looks to be in denial.

    Unless you can provide more evidence, I have to come back with a ‘not guilty’ verdict. So if PMAFT is in denial, you’ll have to include me.

    Why does anyone think AlekNovy is an MRA?

    He appears to be at least sympathetic to MRAs.

    What does AlekNovy do to support MRA goals?

    The overall tone of his blog is male-positive. For example, if you look at his article on Rebecca Watson, he rips her a new anus. He also references Barbarossaa, who is definitely pro-MRA (and anti-Game as well).

    Not everyone in the manosphere is an MRA. I welcome anyone who has a genuinely male-positive view and support (or at least aren’t opposed to) MRA goals.

    Anyhoo, most other people will see this for what it is, even if Pro-male wants to say, “That comment means he just encourages and supports her goal to shut Roissy down! He didn’t actually ASSIST her!”

    Since his comment “we have a duty to destroy the PUA cult” came a long time after the fact (after LR outed Roissy), that would suggest that he didn’t actually assist her, wouldn’t it? The first comment on the thread was Jan. 25, 2010, and Alek didn’t comment until June 2, 2011. For a gung-ho co-conspirator he sure seems restrained. The timing is consistent with the interpretation that he spotted an anti-Roissy thread and chimed in. He may not have had any idea what a looneytoon she is.

  18. Saw that this thread is still going, so I might as well jump in…

    For the record, I DON’T believe AlekNovy is in cahoots with Lady Raine (and doing so would be rather difficult considering she’s been AWOL for half a year), nor do I believe he’s sockpuppeting on blogs and forums. What I DO believe about Novy is that at the very least, he’s not being entirely forward about who he is and what he’s trying to accomplish.

    I used to read and link to Novy, but stopped around the time of the Frost-Elam Debate after seeing make increasingly grandiose, unproven claims about himself (I sarged with David DeAngelo! I’m a sociologist! etc.) as well as seeing his disingenuous style of arguing. Novy’s entire argument against game and his credibility rests on his claimed experience with the seduction community — if it turned out that he was totally lying about it, his “anti-game” position is completely destroyed.

    Granted, there ARE other writers out there like Assanova/Real Made Man and Aaron Sleazy who make similar arguments to Novy. But here’s the thing — all of those guys are open about the time they spent as PUAs, their claims are independently verifiable, and their attitudes are completely unlike Novy’s. You don’t see Sleazy or Assanova getting into lengthy, protracted blog debates, and you don’t see them engaging in the hysterical CAPS-LOCK ranting that Novy does on a daily basis. Also, those guys are accessible — you can email them and comment on their blogs. Not only does AlekNovy forbid anyone from commenting on his blog, he doesn’t even provide an email or any way to contact him. What’s he afraid of?

    Novy’s comment upthread about sockpuppeting is an example of his disingenuous arguments. He claims that:

    SERIOUSLY!~?!?!? You guys are a fucking joke. What’s with the dlusional conspiracy theories. You’re nobodies. Nobody is fucking registering sock-puppet accounts to fight you, let alone serious adult activists like paul elam. Get off the heroine.

    He bases this on a link from the Revolting Omega Virgin, which is based off of… one comment left by Gx1080 about one guy who has admitted to changing the handle he uses on the Internet constantly to argue about game:

    http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2011/12/12/bridging-the-great-divide-mra-game-you-two-fight/#comment-84243

    In Novy’s twisted, ill mind, one comment about one guy becomes “all gamers think everyone who argues against them is a sockpuppet”. Either he can’t read or he’s deliberately lying.

    As I said already, I’m not accusing Novy of anything, and I don’t care about him. I actually agree with a lot of what he says about game. But everyone should exercise caution and not believe everything they read on the Internet… especially when it comes to guys making grandiose claims about themselves that they can’t prove.

    • Ferdinand Bardamu wrote:
      For the record, I DON’T believe AlekNovy is in cahoots with Lady Raine

      Since he only commented on her ‘Roissy outed’ thread eighteen months after she started it, that’s the most reasonable conclusion.

      What I DO believe about Novy is that at the very least, he’s not being entirely forward about who he is and what he’s trying to accomplish.

      Thanks for weighing in, Ferdinand. Some of the answers to the questions you’re asking of course can only come from Alek himself. He claims to own the biggest game forum “in this part of the world”, along with some scattered game blogs. Maybe if he pointed them out to us, we could get an idea of where he stands.

      As I said already, I’m not accusing Novy of anything, and I don’t care about him. I actually agree with a lot of what he says about game.

      There’s also a lot of muddying of the waters of what game is and isn’t. On one side are those who believe game can cure the common cold and on the other extreme we have those who dismiss it as a figment of the imagination. Some of what Alek says strikes me as pretty extreme, but I’m at least willing to listen to him, especially if he can show us he’s a former gamer (as he claims).

      But everyone should exercise caution and not believe everything they read on the Internet… especially when it comes to guys making grandiose claims about themselves that they can’t prove.

      No argument there. I’m no fan of sacred cows. Everything is open to question and criticism.

      • “There’s also a lot of muddying of the waters of what game is and isn’t. On one side are those who believe game can cure the common cold and on the other extreme we have those who dismiss it as a figment of the imagination.”

        Yeah, which is why these debates are a huge waste of time, for the most part. Often the two sides aren’t even talking about the same thing. The “gamer” says “A, B and C is good advice and actually works,” while the “anti-gamer” says “X, Y and Z are pure bullshit! Just believe in yourself.. “ etc.

        Also, these debates routinely degenerate into a battle of unfalsifiable premises. On the one side we have those who say that game works, IF you run it right, and if you try it and fail then you didn’t really run “game,” or you haven’t “learned” it yet. On the other side are those who say that “game” never works and doesn’t help anyone ever, and if you use it and get laid then you got laid in SPITE of game, not because of it. Round and round we go…

        Personally, while I (like Ferd) agree with a lot of what Alek says about “game,” I still think that a lot of what is called “game” can be useful for a lot of guys, and that Heartiste in particular offers keen insights into the female mindset (which even critics like Susan Walsh and a lot of the HUS girls begrudgingly admit).

        My guess is that the difference between our two views (mine and Novy’s) is that when I look at “game” I take the parts that make sense to me based on my experiences and understanding and just disregard the rest, while Alek looks at everything that’s called “game,” notices that some of it’s fucked up and then declares war on everything that bears the “game” label. Or at least that’s what it looks like to me.

        In the grand scheme of things, though, I just… don’t… CARE. At least, not that much. If you want to disagree with me one way or the other, that’s fine.

        To put it another way, I just don’t see the whole “game vs. anti-game” thing as a big enough issue to fight over when we’ve got VAWA, the Bradley Amendment, the false rape industry, marriage 2.0, the gender feminists, and the “man-up” socons to deal with, among other things.

    • For the record, I DON’T believe AlekNovy is in cahoots with Lady Raine (and doing so would be rather difficult considering she’s been AWOL for half a year), nor do I believe he’s sockpuppeting on blogs and forums.

      That is the most reasonable position especially since what is being attributed to AlekNovy in some cases is impossible.

      What I DO believe about Novy is that at the very least, he’s not being entirely forward about who he is and what he’s trying to accomplish.

      I used to read and link to Novy, but stopped around the time of the Frost-Elam Debate after seeing make increasingly grandiose, unproven claims about himself (I sarged with David DeAngelo! I’m a sociologist! etc.) as well as seeing his disingenuous style of arguing. Novy’s entire argument against game and his credibility rests on his claimed experience with the seduction community — if it turned out that he was totally lying about it, his “anti-game” position is completely destroyed.

      If he’s lying about this, then I agree with you, although this isn’t an important issue to me. What’s more important is what this represents. Anyone coming into the manosphere now isn’t going to know the whole history of the manosphere. They’re not going to know is LR is or why they should avoid her. That’s not a problem now since LR has vanished, but I see no reason not to give newcomers the benefit of the doubt. The alternative is to become a paranoid and insular clique.

      On top of that, I have no problem with a man who has MRA sympathies who is against or is neutral on game. The last two and half weeks with Susan Walsh should prove that a litmus test with game is a failure since it keeps MRAs out despite their overall pro-male stance and let’s in the game 2.0 types like Susan Walsh who are trying to get men under feminine control again.

      I actually agree with a lot of what he says about game.

      Me too. A lot of it makes sense and is similar to my experiences. As far as I’m concerned, game is not some holy text that can’t be deviated from. There is a lot of useless bullshit in it as we know. There is plenty of room for improvement in game. It’s even possible that something that provides superior results could replace it. Because of that I’m willing to listen to REASONED criticism of game.

      If we could improve game to the point where we could keep the game 2.0 crew out by design, that alone would make the process worth it (although I’m not sure that’s possible).

      • On top of that, I have no problem with a man who has MRA sympathies who is against or is neutral on game.

        Neither do I — many writers I read like Paul Elam or MarkyMark are neutral/against game and that’s fine with me. My problem with AlekNovy is a) he’s OBSESSED with game and constantly derails conversations to talk about it (like he did here) and b) he’s mendacious on the issue. The net effect of his contributions is to foment discord and disunity in the MRM. If he were “pro-game” but behaved the same way he does now, I’d still be wary of him.

        Downthread, Keoni Galt pointed out another example of how AlekNovy regularly lies and distorts the truth to promote his anti-game, anti-paleo agenda. The Flickr profile from Mark’s Daily Apple that Novy claims doesn’t have a “single fit-looking fella” has a grand total of 2-3 people who aren’t fit-looking (out of maybe 20 some-odd people) — and as Keoni said, the fat guys on there were showing off how they became LESS fat when they started eating paleo. Regardless of how you feel about game or the paleo diet, a guy who engages in this kind of mendacity on a regular basis is not someone you want on your side.

        • And why has AlekNovy vanished from this thread for the last week? Even as this thread is getting more coverage, not less?

          The Black Pill has started his own thread pertaining to this discussion – note the trackbacks. Alek has weighed in there and already answered some of my earlier questions. I may ask him a few more.

    • Aaron Sleazy MAKES MONEY OFF SELLING GAME BOOKS. That Aaron has come to conclusions similar to AlekNovy is actually quite incredible – the man is about as honest as it is possible to be while still making money off selling game books. Even half of Roosh’s posts are about how game does not work and it is just a numbers game, but I get the sense Roosh depends for his income on game far more than Sleazy does, so Sleazy is able to be much more honest.

      Assanova WRITES A GAME BLOG, etc – and has also come to similar conclusions.

      The only difference between these guys and Alek is that Alek’s position is utterly consistent and completely clear about his break with game, while Sleazy and Assanova – who make money off game! – are only about 95% clear about their break with game. They fudge a bit. Sleazy wrote a book called “minimal game” which essentially tells you that game does not work and talks about strategies that help you FIND girls that are already into you. Why does he still call it game then???? Why does he stick to the discredited terminology of something he does not believe in? Duh, because he wants to sell books to gullible losers like Bardamu, who believe anything they read off the net so long as the guy writes with “authority”, as he has admitted on his blog, and Sleazy knows there are a ton of guys out there, poor gullible desperate guys, who buy into the game label, so he caters to that. Is that entirely honest from someone who knows game does not work? No, it is not.

      Yet it is Alek – the one NOT MAKING MONEY – whose credibility is being called into question and who is “not who he seems”.

      What is amusing about these speculations about the REAL personal facts about various anonymous internet bloggers is that no one can possibly know – anyone who believes they can based on what someone writes is a gullible fool with the critical thinking skills of a child – which is why we should focus on arguments and logic rather than on who Alek “really” is or is not, or who “roissy” really is or is not.

      Sure, there is lots of good evidence that roissy does not get laid and is terrible with girls, but so what? Are his arguments sound? No. Does he interpret scientific studies correctly? No. Is he honest in his arguing? No. does he publish dissenting positions? No, he bans you for dissenting. Is his view of women and sexuality consistent with reality as you experience it? Not with my experience, after putting it to the test a thousand times. But that is a question each reader must decide for himself. Point is, it has nothing to do with who roissy “really”is!

      But for some people – and this has been the most mindblowingly incredible discovery I have made in a long time – what matters, as Bardamu says on his blog, is not the logic and evidence presented by a particular person, but how the person subjectively “comes across”, in deciding whether to believe them! I know, it blew me away too.

      And some people don’t like Alek Novy’s STYLE – so voila, he stands condemned! – others like roissy’s style – so there, he must be right!

      For large numbers of people, these are VALID ARGUMENTS.

      Anyways, one can only chuckle – what can be done with gamers who lack the most basic critical thinking skills? Unfortunately not much, but then, the world has always been filled with the gullible and the foolish. Trying to “destroy game”is a quixotic enterprise – it is like trying to eradicate stupidity, weakness, and credulity from the world. Can’t be done. At best you can save a few people. There will always be weak people who need to overcompensate for feelings of powerlessness by trying to “dominate” others and be flamboyantly macho, like roissy, imaging they are being impressive when all they are doing is advertising their weakness. Such people always crumble at the first moment of real stress, and genuinely confident con men can spot them through their inappropriately macho behavior a mile away and often prey on them, but that is the way of the world.

      Oh, and – 99% of men and a million percent of women will never understand game, right? Come on, we need to make that into some kind of religious chant we can just throw at people who begin to notice logical contradictions in game, to intimidate them into silent. Maybe we can make a prayer book that people can use each morning to put their minds to sleep.

      • Hello my sockpuppeteer friend. That’s what I’m gonna you from now on — Mr. Sockpuppeteer.

        Aaron Sleazy MAKES MONEY OFF SELLING GAME BOOKS.

        Liar. Sleazy has written ONE game book, which he only released two months ago and only at the behest of his readership. The only other book he’s selling is “Sleazy Stories,” a memoir.

        Duh, because he wants to sell books to gullible losers like Bardamu, who believe anything they read off the net so long as the guy writes with “authority”, as he has admitted on his blog

        You are a liar. Here’s what I actually wrote:

        As much as you would like to pretend to be a Vulcan, existing in a world of cold logic and rationality, reality is more complicated. Verisimilitude matters. Ethos matters. In an environment where the participants are anonymous and don’t know who each other are (like the blogosphere), verisimilitude and ethos are the coin of the realm — we judge each other by the inadvertent truth revealed in our words, our writing styles, our attitudes and behavior. And verisimilitude and ethos are nearly impossible to fake — you’ve either got them or you don’t.

        http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2011/12/12/bridging-the-great-divide-mra-game-you-two-fight/#comment-84401

        This doesn’t invalidate logic and reason, but supplements them. Roissy says a lot of bullshit, but the greater thrust of what he says is truth; I’ve seen it myself and read it in the great works of the Western canon. AlekNovy has some good points, but the greater thrust of what he says is wrong.

        Finally, in your retarded hero-worship, you fail to realize that half of Novy’s “anti-game” arguments are based in his supposed experience in the seduction community, not any independently verifiable science or facts. Novy regularly cites his experience as a PUA to buttress his arguments; if he were lying about that experience, his arguments are rendered invalid.

        Take his claim upthread that he has game websites all over the net — if he actually had those websites, he would have linked to them instead of bragging about them like a nerd trying to hide his virginity from his disapproving classmates. “My girlfriend is from Niagara Falls, Canada! You wouldn’t know her!”

        Yet it is Alek – the one NOT MAKING MONEY – whose credibility is being called into question and who is “not who he seems”.

        Novy regularly lies and distorts the truth to win online arguments. I provided one example in this thread (the bogus claim he makes that all gamers everywhere believe everyone who opposes them is a sockpuppet) and Keoni Galt provides another (the Mark Sisson Flickr account that he claims is full of fat people, when there are only two or three fatties out of two dozen people). The only reason more people don’t challenge him is because he throws so much bullshit out all the time that no one can keep up. We have real lives; we can’t spend all day responding to every lie or error in the dozen 1,000-word disjointed rants AlekNovy makes every day. You do the exact same thing he does.

        Sure, there is lots of good evidence that roissy does not get laid and is terrible with girls, but so what?

        There is no evidence, beyond claims that AlekNovy pulled out of his ass. Not that I particularly care about Roissy.

        This is the most amount of time I’m willing to spend on you, Mr. Sockpuppeteer. Enjoy your circle-jerk.

        • In an environment where the participants are anonymous and don’t know who each other are (like the blogosphere), verisimilitude and ethos are the coin of the realm — we judge each other by the inadvertent truth revealed in our words, our writing styles, our attitudes and behavior.

          So you judge the truth of what roissy says BY HIS STYLE – which is exactly what I said! D’oh! You think TRUTH can be revealed by writing style, and attitude and internet behavior (internet personality). No rational person past elementary school thinks this way.

          Ferd, you cannot type 3 words without stumbling and shooting yourself in the foot. This is the same thing you did on the other thread.

          Great, so now you say logic and facts matter as well, but writing style and carefully crafted anonymous internet persona (lol) matter in determining truth as well. I suppose you are getting a bit better, as at least here logic plays SOME role. Maybe this will be an education in critical thinking skills for you and at the end you will just drop the whole nonsense about judging truth based on a persons internet style, eh? There is no shame in being retarded, the only shame is in persisting in your retardation after having it pointed out to you. We can all grow as human beings, Ferd.

          Roissy says a lot of bullshit, but the greater thrust of what he says is truth; I’ve seen it myself and read it in the great works of the Western canon. AlekNovy has some good points, but the greater thrust of what he says is wrong.

          First point – who gives a shit what “truths”are enshrined in the Western canon? Again, this tendency of yours to “receive” truth based on “authority” is in shameful evidence – it’s like a built in feature of your mind, you can’t get away from it. Stop citing from “authority” – it is NOT an intellectually respectable practice!

          Now, if what roissy says about the world of women and sexuality jives with your personal experience, then that has nothing to do with his writing style or internet attitude and behavior, lol. You are judging based on facts as you perceive them. Nothing to do with writing style. Nothing to do with internet attitude. Just the reality of your life as you understand it. Now, it is entirely possible that the “explanations” roissy offers for your experiences are simplistic and misleading, and a critical person (.ie. someone unlike you) would be very cautious in accepting the first plausible and coherent explanation that comes his way merely because it is plausible and coherent (many cults operate by offering plausible but misleading explanations of phenomena). He would consider alternatives. Of course this takes independent thinking skills and not relying on “authority”, so may be a bit beyond your powers at this stage. But in a few years, if you work on yourself…perhaps.

          Finally, in your retarded hero-worship, you fail to realize that half of Novy’s “anti-game” arguments are based in his supposed experience in the seduction community, not any independently verifiable science or facts. Novy regularly cites his experience as a PUA to buttress his arguments; if he were lying about that experience, his arguments are rendered invalid.

          You actually admit that for you admiration of roissy is a criterion for judging people intelligent or not, yet it is I who am the hero worshipper, lol. Because you have the mentality of the follower you can’t fathom that someone can learn from someone else without “worshiping”him – as you make plain with your remarks on roissy, the two are inseparable for you.

          The more you talk the more you paint a picture of your mind that explains so much about game.

          The core of Novy’s argument against game applies everyday logic to game concepts and cites scientific studies – does he also cite his personal experience? Sure, but that is hardly the core of his argument, and plays a different function completely, which you have trouble understanding. And this has nothing to do with judging based on “writing style”.

          So SOME Novy claims are personal in nature and not verifiable? So that means I now must judge his writing style and internet behavior to decide if these claims are true or not, right? Wrong, you uncritical fool! I can NEVER know from the internet alone if Novy’s remarks about his personal life are true – any argument of Novy’s that depended for their veracity on his claims about his personal life would be arguments that would have to remain agnostic about

          Now, since you exist in a mental muddle and are very confused about the different functions different statements can make in an argument, let me try to bring some clarity to this. It goes a little something like this –

          1) Conclusions that are defended by logic and independently verifiable facts (the majority of Novy’s arguments, which is simply applying every day logic to game concepts and citing scientific studies) are meant to be accepted as facts.

          2) Sometimes, however, we might offer up completely unverifiable tidbits from our personal lives that are an invitation for you to reflect on and consider if you have any matching experiences. Such statements serve a completely different function from the rigorous logic and evidence kind. They are not meant to be accepted as “truth”.

          You DON’T go and ACCEPT these personal tidbits based on the authors “style”, you sad, credulous person, you simply assign it a much lower truth level and consider whether it illuminates your own experiences or not.

          Novy regularly lies and distorts the truth to win online arguments. I provided one example in this thread (the bogus claim he makes that all gamers everywhere believe everyone who opposes them is a sockpuppet) and Keoni Galt provides another (the Mark Sisson Flickr account that he claims is full of fat people, when there are only two or three fatties out of two dozen people).

          OK, so I suppose not all gamers everywhere think Alek is a sock puppet. Good one, bro! You really chipped away at the credibility of Alek’s entire anti-game position! Great catch there, you master sleuth, you caught alek making a hasty overgeneralization on a trivial point! I guess if this is a typical example of how Alek “distorts”the truth we really need to reconsider Aleks’ entire position, huh. You got me there, Ferd.

          Yeah, and I saw that Flikr photo collection – dude, mots people were chunky or downright fat on that. You would get fewer fat people on a photo collection of vegetarians.

  19. Retrenched wrote:
    Also, these debates routinely degenerate into a battle of unfalsifiable premises. On the one side we have those who say that game works, IF you run it right, and if you try it and fail then you didn’t really run “game,” or you haven’t “learned” it yet.

    It gets to the point where keyboard jockeys attribute superhuman powers to expert gamers. I just read of one account by a fellow who narrowly escaped a false rape accusation. Apparently the sweet sex kitten he was bedding suddenly morphed into the psycho bitch from hell. One dweeb scolded him for not running tight enough game on her. This attitude may be on the extreme, but I saw several commenters in the Elam/Frost debate who dismissed the risk of FRAs with a wave of their hands. In the same vein, Obsidian once wrote that Mike Tyson had only himself to blame for ending up in the slammer. I find that level of indifference to consequences unbelievably stupid.


    Personally, while I (like Ferd) agree with a lot of what Alek says about “game,” I still think that a lot of what is called “game” can be useful for a lot of guys, and that Heartiste in particular offers keen insights into the female mindset (which even critics like Susan Walsh and a lot of the HUS girls begrudgingly admit).

    I really do think Roissy has some key insights into the female psyche. Alek just dismissing him as a charlatan is a bit much for me.

    In the grand scheme of things, though, I just… don’t… CARE. At least, not that much. If you want to disagree with me one way or the other, that’s fine.

    My position is the same as yours. I think Game on the level of getting laid at best provides a minor benefit to men (studying female pyschology is a different matter). Men as a group will benefit far more from MGTOW, help with self-improvement, changes in the law, enabling technologies such as VR sex, and learning to network together for their mutual benefit.

    • It gets to the point where keyboard jockeys attribute superhuman powers to expert gamers. I just read of one account by a fellow who narrowly escaped a false rape accusation. Apparently the sweet sex kitten he was bedding suddenly morphed into the psycho bitch from hell. One dweeb scolded him for not running tight enough game on her. This attitude may be on the extreme, but I saw several commenters in the Elam/Frost debate who dismissed the risk of FRAs with a wave of their hands. In the same vein, Obsidian once wrote that Mike Tyson had only himself to blame for ending up in the slammer. I find that level of indifference to consequences unbelievably stupid.

      This is exactly where these game vs. anti-game debates get very problematic. Game is a tool, and as with any tool, you use it for it’s intended job. Just as I would use a paint brush and not a hammer to paint walls, I wouldn’t use game to protect me from FRAs. I use other tools for that. One problem with these debates are side issues like this. A lot of men will reflexively end up on the anti-game side, not so much because they question game’s effectiveness, but because it’s obvious game is the wrong tool for situations like FRAs. And there’s also the game 2.0 crew causing problems. Men should be against those things, but without a clear separation between game and that BS, game is going to get pulled down with it.

  20. So what they are saying is men should forego the lifestyle they enjoy so people have something nice to say about them when they are dead? What they are really afraid of is that men spend less (they already spend less than women) and either keep more money or just work less, meaning paying less taxes.

    Or will it say, “Here lies [your name]. He worked hard at his job so his boss could afford nice things, for his community so they could tax and disrespect him, and stood up for the poor and the oppressed (so they could steal from him). He leaves behind his ex-wife, lots of children (one of them his),and lots of grandchildren who nearly loved him and will do things even greater than he as soon as they are released from prison.”

  21. […] needs a devil to hate.  That devil used to be me, but now it’s Alek Novy.  If you look at the comments at a recent post a PMAFT’s blog, this will become clear.  Read what the gamers were saying about him. Before you defend AlekNovy […]

  22. […] A discussion has been going on at PMAFT for a few days over anti-Game troll Alek Novy and his unholy alliance […]

  23. Amusing. I haven’t clicked over to white and nerdy’s place in a while, but I come here and see his trackback to his now renamed “black pill” blog. Cute. So I take a gander and I see that he continues to slander me at every given opportunity. Hilarious.

    To note: he now refers to me as “Hawaiian Fat Blob.” All this because Alek Novy calls “paleo” diet a “cult” and he linked to a flickr photo stream from Mark Sisson showing a few fat people. Ummmmm hello, dumbshits, the reason why Sisson’s photo album has a few fatties in it, is because fat people are the ones who discover how effective the paleo diet has been in helping them lose weight.

    Novy writes at Nerdy’s”

    The only reason conspiracy theorists like Hawaiian blob are mentioning feminism negatively is because they make conspiracy theories about everything. They just throw everything and everything into that grinder.

    Right. Because I started an MRA blog 5 years ago, a couple of years ago before I ever even heard of “Game.” Before I even heard of the term “conspiracy theory.” I find this argument even funnier coming from Novy, since he basically makes the entire genre of “GAME” theory on teh interwebz as nothing more than a ‘conspiracy’ to make money off of guys who are sexually frustrated.

    Even more curious….Nerdy always has nothing but praise for PMAFT – and yet PMAFT blogs about game and spinning three plates at once and using Game to pickup born-again sluts at church on sunday morning. But according to Nerdy….PMAFT is a solid MRA, while anyone else that blogs about “game” is a conspiracy theorist cult member.

    Is this what those of you who support Novy and Nerdy take for serious arguments?

    Even you, PMAFT, call the paleo diet a cult. LMAO.

    Here’s a simple way to show just how dumb Novy’s and Nerdy’s labelling of Paleo is a so-called “cult.”

    First, let’s take Novy’s reasoning as to why the Paleo diet is a “cult” –

    “You end up eating less calories while believing calories don’t matter, and lose weight, and then attribute it to a conspiracy theory that tricked you into eating less.”

    Ah yes, the good old “losing weight is simple, just eat less, work out more.”

    Simple logic Novy…are you capable of comprehending it? Try and follow along here:

    How about I eat 3000 calories of meat, egg, cheese and veggies sauteed in butter every day for a month.
    You eat 2500 calories of twinkies, cookies, crackers, cake, soda, ice cream and candy every day for a month.

    We can both follow the exact same exercise regimen, with you eating 500 calories less than I.

    What does logic and scientific inquiry lead you to understand what would happen where we to conduct such an experiment?

    • Keoni Galt wrote:
      Even more curious….Nerdy always has nothing but praise for PMAFT – and yet PMAFT blogs about game and spinning three plates at once and using Game to pickup born-again sluts at church on sunday morning. But according to Nerdy….PMAFT is a solid MRA, while anyone else that blogs about “game” is a conspiracy theorist cult member.

      Could be because PMAFT has never personally attacked him. Some can have disagreements without them becoming personal, others apparently can’t.

      Even you, PMAFT, call the paleo diet a cult. LMAO.

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but the paleo diet appears to have a lot of similarities to the Atkins diet.

      http://fumento.com/fat/atkinsrip.html

      In this article, Michael Fumento notes that Atkins himself was clinically obese at the time of his death. Also a 2003 Tufts study showed the lack of efficacy of the Atkins diet. He also cites evidence that overall caloric consumption is considerably higher than it was about 40 years ago. That gives credence to the belief that it’s fundamentally calories that count more than their specific composition.

      Here’s some more evidence – in my wife’s culture, high carbohydrate meals with rice are very common. They eat their share of meat and fish, but use it as a flavoring or topping of a high-carb staple. Yet the incidence of obesity is very low.

      Simple logic Novy…are you capable of comprehending it? Try and follow along here:

      How about I eat 3000 calories of meat, egg, cheese and veggies sauteed in butter every day for a month.
      You eat 2500 calories of twinkies, cookies, crackers, cake, soda, ice cream and candy every day for a month.

      I’d say I would find Diet #1 easier to handle without barfing. But it’s not clear to me why I couldn’t just choose a diet with an agreeable mix of protein, fat, and carbs and get an equivalent result. This is what Fumento’s article suggests. I also wonder if a lack of balance in one component can encourage overeating.

      I’m not going to categorically dismiss all diet regimens as nonsense. I’m intrigued by Seth Robert’s Shangri-La diet, and have heard good things about it. But the Atkins diet and its derivatives have been pretty thoroughly debunked.

      • Could be because PMAFT has never personally attacked him. Some can have disagreements without them becoming personal, others apparently can’t.

        Not that I really care, Ray, but I know you’re a regular over at Nerdy’s, so lets set the record straight – before I ever even heard of Nerdy, he attacked me personally. He did it both at IMF and at his own blog.

        At first, I tried to reason with him.

        He doubled down on the insults. He’s still doing it to this very day (Hawaiian fat blob…).

        So please don’t try and tell me the difference between his approval of PMAFT and his attacks on “the roissysphere paleo game cult” have anything to do with mean old “gamer” bloggers personally attacking him first.

        As for Atkins “debunked” – http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-02-10-atkins-statements_x.htm

        Statement by Stuart Trager, M.D., Chair, Atkins Physicians Council on February 10, 2004

        Report on Dr. Atkins Weight at the time of his death

        New York, NY, February 10, 2004—Today’s Wall Street Journal ran a story on the health of Dr. Robert Atkins and grossly distorted and inaccurately reported information that Dr. Atkins was obese at the time of his death. In fact, up until the time he became comatose and lay in the hospital for two weeks. Dr. Atkins’ average weight was actually 60 pounds less than reported in the Journal. The newspaper article was based on incomplete personal medical records that were illegally delivered to the newspaper in violation of federal law, coming from a known group of Vegan and animal rights extremists.

        Dr. Atkins’ weight was consistently and frequently documented in the years and months prior to his fall; as he was suffering from cardiomyopathy, his health was monitored closely. Due to water retention, this robust 6-foot plus man, who competitively played tennis frequently during the week, had a weight that varied between 180 and 195. During his coma, as he deteriorated and his major organs failed, fluid retention and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left him at 258 pounds at the time of his death, a documented weight gain of over 60 pounds. How and why the Journal reported that he was obese, remains the only unanswered question in this pathetic situation.

        Any implication that Dr. Atkins was obese or fat prior to his coma, shows a blatant disregard or even worse, lack of understanding of the medical facts surrounding this case, or of the physiology of severe heart failure and the degree of fluid retention that occurred during this hospitalization. None of us would expect the physicians at PCRM to reveal this in light of their past and their current motivation … but surely as physicians they understood that this was not obesity, I guess it just didn’t support the point they cared to convey … so they chose to ignore it?

        • Keoni Galt wrote:
          Not that I really care, Ray, but I know you’re a regular over at Nerdy’s,

          I’ve commented on his blog occasionally, but that hardly qualifies me as a “regular”. His blog is a bit narrower in focus than suits my taste even though I like some of what he writes.

          so lets set the record straight – before I ever even heard of Nerdy, he attacked me personally.

          And if I asked him, he’d likely give the mirror image of your version of events – you instigated and he’s just defending himself. Without some hard evidence, it’s pretty much a he said-he said situation.

          He did it both at IMF and at his own blog.

          I know he’s done it on his own blog. Where and when did he do it on IMF? I remember Ferdinand once dedicated a whole article on how screwed up he was, which seems a bit uncalled for. Even if he is, so what?

          He doubled down on the insults. He’s still doing it to this very day (Hawaiian fat blob…).

          Ok, it would be better if he didn’t make it so personal. It’s clear to me that communication has essentially broken down between the two of you.

          During his coma, as he deteriorated and his major organs failed, fluid retention and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left him at 258 pounds at the time of his death, a documented weight gain of over 60 pounds

          If you read Fumento’s article, he addressed this issue and even mentioned the article you’re referring to. Forensic pathologist Michael Baden said it was unlikely that he would have accumulated 60+ lbs. of fluid due to his treatment in the hospital.

          He also cites several studies which show the lack of efficacy of the Atkins diet. Sorry, but I see no hard evidence that the Atkins diet is an effective method of losing weight.

  24. Whatevers Ray. You initially commented:

    “Could be because PMAFT has never personally attacked him. Some can have disagreements without them becoming personal, others apparently can’t.”

    Just correcting your passive-aggressive implication that I did something to deserve Nerdy’s personal attacks.

    I never knew he even existed until he attacked me on an IMF thread. Clicking on his handle brought me to his blog, where I found a blog post dedicated solely to slandering me (the “Dave in Hawaii is a Mangina” thread).

    As for Atkins, I’m not defending the Atkins diet, nor can you discredit “paleo” by implying it’s the same as Atkins. It’s not.

    I don’t give a shit what Fumento writes to discredit Atkins. I don’t follow the Atkins diet. Some principles may be similar, but you’re missing the larger point: the paleo diet is not really about simply finding an effective method of losing weight.

    It’s about eating a nutrient dense diet of natural foods and avoiding processed, industrialized crap.

    • Keoni Galt wrote:
      Just correcting your passive-aggressive implication that I did something to deserve Nerdy’s personal attacks.

      Sure, Keoni, whatever. I’m sure you’re an innocent little lamb who did nothing to provoke him. The only problem is that you’re still operating in a fact free zone where it’s W&N’s word vs. yours. So you haven’t yet corrected anything at all.

      I never knew he even existed until he attacked me on an IMF thread.

      Again, which IMF thread was that? That’s the second time I asked you that same question.

      Clicking on his handle brought me to his blog, where I found a blog post dedicated solely to slandering me (the “Dave in Hawaii is a Mangina” thread).

      I’ll take a look at it when I have time.

      I don’t give a shit what Fumento writes to discredit Atkins.

      You probably should, since he’s a sharp journalist with a nose for getting at the truth. He’s also good with doing things like referencing peer-reviewed studies and experiments to support his viewpoints. He may not tell you what you want to hear, but that’s a different matter.

      It’s about eating a nutrient dense diet of natural foods and avoiding processed, industrialized crap.

      We’ve been eating processed food (cheese is one, which is supposed to be part of your diet) for thousands of years. You could even argue that we’ve been eating it since cooking was invented, which predates the appearance of anatomically modern humans. I’m not sure how meaningful the dichotomy is between natural and processed foods is. Some types of processing is beneficial, others are not or are even harmful. But that needs to be decided on a case-by-case basis.

      If you have any definitive studies on the efficacy of the paleo diet, please reference them. Unfortunately, subjects such as weight-loss are particularly prone to self-deception. Of course, so is making money and getting laid – I wonder why 😉 . So you’ll have to pardon my skepticism.

    • Just an update here.
      I looked at the relevant IMF thread which is below. I found it in your blog archives.

      http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2010/06/05/the-mencius-moldbug-of-the-roissysphere/#comment-14638

      So W & N did make the initial attack when he compared you unfavorably with the conspiracy theorist troll greatbooksformen. You did respond politely in the same thread, at least initially (he didn’t).

      • So W & N did make the initial attack when he compared you unfavorably with the conspiracy theorist troll greatbooksformen. You did respond politely in the same thread, at least initially (he didn’t).

        I don’t think that matters. Keoni Galt has a habit of making limp wristed accusations while being unwilling to man up with any follow through. For a long time he has said that any man who doesn’t learn game deserves anything that women do to him. It’s time someone called him out on this and W&N or BP or whatever he’s calling himself this week did that.

        Keoni Galt makes a lot of these limp wristed accusations. Recently, he made an accusation that several manosphere blogs were “false flags”. He wouldn’t man up and list any specific blogs. A couple of subsequent comments ask him about the specific blogs and what exactly he meant by “false flags”. Keoni’s response is to make jokes. I can’t tell if Keoni refuses to man up and defend what he said or if he was just trying to be edgy by refusing to man up and say what he means. In either case I’m glad someone has the balls to call Keoni out and tell him his shit stinks.

        • Carbon 14 wrote:
          I don’t think that matters.Keoni Galt has a habit of making limp wristed accusations while being unwilling to man up with any follow through.

          Well, that’s fine, you’re entitled to your opinion about the man. I wasn’t trying to address the question “Is Keoni Galt a conspiracy theorist kook?” because it’s too damn complicated an accusation. I just wanted to find out who fired the opening shot in this little feud.

        • I just wanted to find out who fired the opening shot in this little feud.

          My problem with that is what constitutes the “opening shot”? Keoni Galt has been playing internet keyboard warrior for a long time. He has been talking shit about guys who have gotten on the wrong end of feminism for a long time. He says it’s their fault for failing to man up and learn game. (This is something that isn’t limited to him. Obsidian did the same thing.) Eventually, someone was going to call him on this and should call him on it. W&N/BP who is a member of the group of guys that Keoni Galt accuses of failing to man up and learn game, happened to be the one to do that.

          Asking who fired the “first shot” is a problem because Keoni Galt has been arguing this in a very feminine manner. As soon as someone calls him out on him being a internet keyboard warrior, he pulls a, “Why are you attacking me? I didn’t say anything about YOU. How could I since I have never heard of you? I’m the victim of someone attacking me for no reason.” W&N/BP probably chose the wrong forum to start this (and W&N/BP has other problems we could talk about too), but Keoni Galt refuses to argue like a man taking a feminine route when he gets called on his behavior.

          The question isn’t, “Is Keoni Galt a conspiracy theorist kook?” as much as it’s, “Is Keoni Galt a internet keyboard warrior using conspiracy theory and game to talk a lot about how he’s a ‘real man’ playing passive-aggressive games to play the victim when his behavior is called out?” The answer to the latter question is clearly, yes. W&N/BP’s problems (which are legion) doesn’t change this fact nor the fact that Keoni Galt is incredibly dirty (and that applies far beyond his dealings with W&N/BP).

        • My problem with that is what constitutes the “opening shot”?

          Good question. It’s true that if you fire a gun you may get return fire, and from other than your intended targets. It’s too bad, but that’s life.

          He says it’s their fault for failing to man up and learn game. (This is something that isn’t limited to him. Obsidian did the same thing.)

          I’ve had a few harsh words to say about Obsidian because of that. Kind of strange that his knowledge of game didn’t prevent him from getting his blog taken down because he offended some women.

          W&N/BP probably chose the wrong forum to start this

          I think so. It would have been better to engage Keoni in response to one of his Spearhead or IMF columns (or comments), and call him on something specific. Try to attack the argument before you attack the arguer is a good rule of thumb.

  25. Atkins diet has not been debunked at all. Stop talking s**t.

    And, Atkins was not obese when he fell. The hospital admissions papers were released by his wife after the PETA type folks illegally obtained and released his death certificate and released it. He gained a lot of weight in the hospital from IV’s when his renal system shut down and they kept pumping IV’s into him. She won her law suit.

    Not that I care if he was fat. His diet works for around 70% of people, mostly those who are of European ancestry. I have been on the diet for five years, I am extremely hypoglycemic and it has been hard. I am down 40 pounds, and feel great, do heavy manual labor. I have 21 year old attractive women hit on me, I am faithful to my wife of 36 years, and when I pretend I don’t understand their Spanish they leave me alone.

    Last year, I observed a cousin here in Mexico (a majority of Mexican men are of European ancestry) having an unstable angina attack. He asked me to help him with the Atkins diet, and three days later, he had his last attack, though he had for some time had three or four a day, he was lucky to be alive.

    And, my best friend here is a doctor. He suffered from the same false information you suffer from, and used to tell me my diet could not work. As I got healthier and healthier, he got worse and worse. Finally, a month or so ago, he got so bad he was having leg muscle pains when walking, which is a sign of blocked veins and arteries, and is a sign of pending heart attacks and death. He also started the diet, and a month or so later, is down around 11 pounds, and feels great.

    Ray, it is never a good idea to write about something when you know nothing about it. The Atkins Institute has had over 50,000 patients, and had 95% success on a diet which you claim has been debunked. You know jack s**t about Atkins.

    Those who want to know the truth, find GOOD CALORIES BAD CALORIES by Gary Taubes, at a good library, or actually pay for it. He tells how the AMA got their head up their arses on diet, and why they teach high carb; low fat, when 70% of people need the exact opposite. He also explains they attacked Atkins not based on science, but because he was a PITA and they didn’t like him. He reviews the bad science which produced dietary advice the exact opposite of what most people need.

    And, there is a new Atkins Diet, with a few slight changes, to help reduce start-up problems. It is the same, except it includes 1/2 teaspoon of salt a day, to compensate for rapid water loss at the start. And, to avoid constipation very common on Induction, it is recommended to have at least 4 of 1/2 cup servings of low carb vegetables a day. Their new book is THE NEW ATKINS FOR THE NEW YOU.

    My son ballooned up to 220 pounds when he was in medical school. He tried WW, it didn’t work, he started Atkins, and is down to 160 pounds. In UAE, he runs 7 miles at 120 degrees, in the sun. Yes, they told him in medical school Atkins was no good, he knows better.

    I was 220 also, am only down to around 175, because of hypoglycemia.

    Atkins works for those smart enough to follow the diet.

    • Anonymous age 69 wrote:
      Atkins diet has not been debunked at all. Stop talking s**t.

      Fumento’s article states otherwise. So if you want the s**t talk to stop, you’ll need to direct that to him.

      http://fumento.com/fat/atkinsrip.html

      He gained a lot of weight in the hospital from IV’s when his renal system shut down and they kept pumping IV’s into him.

      Fumento quoted a forensic pathologist who basically stated “no way”. Since Atkins had a fractured skull and a brain hemorrhage, it doesn’t make sense that they would keep pumping IVs into him. They would want to keep as much fluid out of his body as possible.

      Not that I care if he was fat.

      If the proponent of a diet can’t even use it effectively on himself, there’s a bit of a credibility gap.

      His diet works for around 70% of people, mostly those who are of European ancestry.

      On what basis do you support this conclusion? Fumento also mentioned a Tufts’ study that showed the Atkins diet to be the least effective of four popular diets. Half of those on the Atkins diet had dropped out, while the other half of those who remained had stopped the low carbs. He also referenced a 2001 meta-analysis of over 200 studies which concluded that weight loss is independent of diet composition. In plain English, a calorie is a calorie.

      Those who want to know the truth, find GOOD CALORIES BAD CALORIES by Gary Taubes, at a good library, or actually pay for it.

      Oh yes, him. He’s mentioned by Fumento too – as someone who has ignored decades of controlled, carefully-done research.

      Atkins works for those smart enough to follow the diet.

      Sorry, but the hard data tells a different story .

      • First, there are pictures of Atkins available on Google when he is clearly a very, very, old man and he is quite thin. If, at the very, very end of his life he gained weight, and mind you, I think Fumento and his “expert” are lying animals who I don’t believe in any way, shape, or form, it is irrelevant.

        Ketosis is a well known compensation for very low blood sugar levels and it’s consequences would result in weight loss. Pretty much no matter what. Whether the weight stays off or other consequences I don’t know, but it clearly will work.

        But of course loud mouth idiots like Fumento understand nothing about basic biochemistry so I would expect howling monkey jabber from him.

        Is that respectful enough for you, kip?

  26. PT Barnum wrote:
    First, there are pictures of Atkins available on Google when he is clearly a very, very, old man and he is quite thin.

    And I’ve seen Biggest Loser contestants who have gotten thin and then gained back the weight. It’s not how much you take off, it’s how much you keep off.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20008214-10391704.html

    If, at the very, very end of his life he gained weight,and mind you, I think Fumento and his “expert” are lying animals who I don’t believe in any way, shape, or form, it is irrelevant.

    If you have any evidence beyond your own fond hopes that they’re lying, then post it. It’s getting kind of old responding to commenters butthurt because I’m disrespecting one of their hometown heroes.

    In his article he references studies and meta-analyses that support his viewpoint. Why don’t you try and refute them? The whole thing about Atkins is just icing on the cake and is peripheral to his main point.

    Ketosis is a well known compensation for very low blood sugar levels and it’s consequences would result in weight loss. Pretty much no matter what. Whether the weight stays off or other consequences I don’t know, but it clearly will work.

    Actually, no it isn’t so clear. Fumento noted that noncompliance with the Atkins diet was a huge problem in the Tufts study he mentioned. Half of the subjects on the Atkins diet dropped out of the study, and half of the remaining did not stick to the low-carb regimen. That’s one reason (there were others) why the Atkins regimen was found to be the least effective of the four popular diet plans investigated. All your pontificating about biochemistry isn’t going to matter if people can’t stick to the plan.

    But of course loud mouth idiots like Fumento understand nothing about basic biochemistry so I would expect howling monkey jabber from him.

    Why should your opinion about Fumento impress me at all?

  27. Lol the antigamer adherents spewing their usual garbage…

    Why don’t you guys say your basically trying to create game for manginas

    Game is about manipulating & controlling women, as evidence has shown, respecting bitches & hoes gets you nowhere…

    Yet you retards spout typical alek novy horseshit, behaviour doesn’t create attraction,

    ALL behaviour creates attraction, how the hell do women
    get attracted, by being psychic?

    Women LOVE dominance & confidence, no amount of social caliberation changes that fact

    Your mangina bullshit about respect & self respect, proves how much full of shit you guys are, & the miniscule amount on women

    Women don’t want respect, the ONLY thing they respect is a dominant alpha

    Women want to be controlled & used & dominated, basic biological facts

    Also game is ALL ABOUT GETTING LAID, being a freaking mangina & respect, will not get you laid

    You can’t change the biological nature of women, by freaking socially caliberation

    Go spout your biologically incorrect horseshit on a gaming site, & see how quick your inbred theories get thrown out

    Nobody wants your mangina game, disguised as antigaming horseshit

  28. Rmaxd wrote:
    Game is about manipulating & controlling women, as evidence has shown, respecting bitches & hoes gets you nowhere…

    Where does this get you?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nuceTz9gZRQ

    Your mangina bullshit about respect & self respect,

    I prefer not to make a horse’s ass of myself in public, I admit.

    proves how much full of shit you guys are, & the miniscule amount on women

    So as a gamer, what’s your lay count per month? And how long does it take you to go from first contact to the sack?

    Also game is ALL ABOUT GETTING LAID, being a freaking mangina & respect, will not get you laid

    That’s fine, but my own life is not ALL ABOUT GETTING LAID. I’ve got other things I want to do. Also, the guys who have dedicated their life to getting laid aren’t the ones who are raking in the women. Compare Paul Janka at 138 women vs some athletes and entertainers who have banged 1000s of women.

  29. So pmaft still not convinced of the insane sock puppetry used by these tards?

    This thread yet again sock puppetry at its worst, same m.o, same shit different site

    Seriously ban these retards, I’m sick of these idiots attacking a group of men

    If you want to attack men, in the manosphere, you will get called out

    Alek novy isn’t hated for his antigame stance, he’s hated because he’s a troll

    Also Alek Novy is NOT anti-game, if you look at his site he clearly has his own version of game, he uses the antigame angle to promote his mentally challenged version of game

    Paul elam, Ferdinand etc., are anti-game, Alek novy has his own false & easily debunked version of game, making him pro-game

    What retard goes against something & creates their own version

    The fact stands the sock puppets in this thread aren’t anti-anything, they’re trolls, this thread proves it

  30. Yes, and I’m afraid it’s probably going to get a lot worse before it gets any better. Shaming language and ridiculous conspiracies are one thing, but legislation criminalizing men’s life decisions is quite another.

    For example, next month the state of Michigan is going to vote on a bill that, among other things, would make it illegal for a man to leave or stop supporting his girlfriend or wife, if she happens to get pregnant…

    http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/?p=21896

    Of course, there’s nothing stopping Michigan women from getting pregnant by men other than their boyfriends/husbands and then using those pregnancies to coerce their men to stay and support them financially, at least until the child is born.

  31. Have you asked any of them about Alek?

    With all of the game 2.0 gamers, and 90% of game being bullshit (not to mention other unrelated bullshit that is getting associated with game like the paleo diet plan), Alek Novy has a point and a perspective worth listening to.

  32. I’d never heard of him till an hour ago when his name came up in Roosh’s post on denialists. I had a quick skim of his site. Bad layout and nothing of interest there. He’s just another nobody with a domain name.

  33. If you want proof game works, as has been pointed out

    Goto Athol Kays site & look at the transcripts & emails of WOMEN Athol Kay has helped, preventing plenty of divorces & marriages from being destroyed from a LACK OF GAME

    Goto DALROCKS own site, where HE ADMITS, game saved his marriage, read Athols EXACT same experience …

    Read Athol’s emails & HIS READERS experience of game saving their relationships

    Game is VERY SIMPLE, act beta you get dumped … its that simple …

    Obviously not simple enough for AlekNovy …

  34. Read Athol’s emails & HIS READERS experience of game saving their relationships

    Game is VERY SIMPLE, act beta you get dumped … its that simple …

    A-ha, now I am starting to get it. No offense, but you have no conception of logic, evidence, and science. I now see that you are just a credulous person with a low threshold for believing things. I had trouble understanding you before, but it is getting clearer.

    It is exceedingly common for people to be TERRIBLE interpreters of their own experiences and to suffer from all sorts of crippling cognitive biases…especially when it comes to personal issues.

    I personally know dudes who SWEAR game works for them like magic – but I go out with them, and all they do is approach like mad, get rejected by like 90% of the women, and finally end up with some chic who digged them. Yet they are fervent believes they could not have gotten that last chic without “game”. Such is the power of cognitive biases…

    That’s why we need science or at least much better evidence than “this guy said game saved his marriage” when there could have been a million other factors at work – even the fact that he just started investing more in his marriage.

    But I see now better what kind of mentality you are operating from, so I am no longer as puzzled about you as was.

  35. Pro-Male,

    Before you defend AlekNovy as an MRA, you should know that he has repeatedly attempted to join forces with Denise Romano and Lady Raine in order to get Roissy and KrauserPUA shut down.

    That is something no one else would do. Not Trollsidian, not Susan Walsh, not TokyoJesusFist.

    Aligning with Denise Romano to harm Roissy in real life is a capital crime against Men’s Rights, whether you agree with Roissy or not.

  36. Same here. I know Lady Raine is batshit insane, but I’d appreciate some proof that Alek has a connection to her or the others.

  37. PMAFT wrote:
    I’m still looking for evidence that Alek Novy is sockpuppeting, involved with LR & Denise Romano, & all the other crap he’s accused of.

    It’s been two days since the original claim was made, with no response so far. You may be waiting for a long time for this evidence.

    I’m opposed to an ideological litmus test based on belief in game in principle, and what is going on with Alek on one end & Susan Walsh on the other show how stupid it is.

    Exactly. There are plenty of respectable bloggers in the manosphere who disagree on the efficacy of game in getting women. Barbarossaa is one and Paul Elam is another. Both are worthy of respect, even if you don’t agree with their views. Susan Walsh is an entirely different matter. Regardless what she believes, she’s no friend of men.

  38. Here is just one thread :

    ladyraine.wordpress.com/the-unedited-roissy-exposed-series/

    Pardon the delay, but no one wants to spend New Year’s weekend rummaging through the cesspool of Lady Raine and AlekNovy conversations.

  39. Sorry, it didn’t hyperlink. Paste it into your browser and see for yourself in the comments what a mangina he is.

    Based on this, if AlekNovy is an MRA, then so is everyone at the Good Men Project.

  40. Wait, so now only gamers have the right to decide if someone “gets”it or not and is allowed to discuss it? Committed die hard gamers have a monopoly on deciding if someone “understands” game or not? Can it get any more anti-rational and cult-like?

    Wow. I thought Novy was using a bit of hyperbole when he compares game to a cult….but this is pretty incredible.

    My hunch that “not understanding game”is merely a gamer phrase for “person notices that game does not work is contradictory”.

    I think anti-gamers need to adopt that phrase and refer to ourselves as “those who do not understand game” lol.

  41. Can you provide me with some links that show Alek doing that? I would like to read about what happened from the original source.

  42. Look at the woman Mark Zuckerberg has.

    Yeah, should have mentioned him. He can surely do better.

  43. Anyone with $10K can open a futures account and trade futures. *Some* people figure out how to make millions, but most do not. However, the opportunity was available to all.

    Of course, but the ability to do is limited by their level of dedication, temperament, the time they need to acquire expertise, and probably their innate talent.

    But what AlekNovy is saying is very different. He is saying ‘the futures market is a scam!

    I know it is not a scam. Even a large number of the ‘losers’ benefit from the futures market because it provides a form of insurance against impossible-to-predict events and also keeps prices efficient. Saying it’s a scam is almost like saying fire insurance is a scam because most policy holders ‘lose’ money without getting a financial return.

    Some gambling, of course is essentially a scam. An example is the slot machines in Atlantic City. Nobody can make money on a consistent basis with them, although I suppose one could argue that that the gamblers are benefiting from their ‘enjoyment’ of the game.

    But what AlekNovy is saying is very different. He is saying ‘the futures market is a scam! No one can ever make money in it just because I didn’t!’.

    Very different. There are far too many logical holes in AlekNovy’s ramblings.

    Ok, but I’d like to see you guys have a rational debate. I looked at his website and found at least some of what he said compelling. For example, Paul Janka’s fairly limited success with women even though he’s made it his full-time job is worth discussing.

    He also claims that factors that are difficult or impossible to control (such as body type) are a major factor in short-term relationships with women. In other words, chemistry.

  44. 7-Hours is the universally accepted average time from approach to lay, and heavily agreed upon, both in modern Game, and it centuries-old literature.

    How did Alek ‘calculate’ this? Yet another display of how he does not grasp Game.

    The relevant IMF thread is ‘Price Discovery and Sex’. Alek said Janka had to go through about 11 given phone numbers to get one lay. To get the 11 phone numbers, I’d have to believe he had to talk to more than 11 women, maybe a lot more. He also claimed that Mystery’s numbers were less impressive, and that it took him longer to get to his current level of expertise (15 years vs. 7).

    (concerning use of escorts)
    The risk is very high. The police are quite gleeful about the prospect of arresting a man this way, and placing him on a sex-offender registry.

    The part about the police I believe. But them trying to arrest johns through outcall services that have been reviewed online would be problematic at best. Most of the busts I read about are with streetwalkers or brothels. A policewoman on her way to a motel room faces the risk of being sent packing when her intended target spots her large, muscle-bound companion or when she refuses a request to disrobe once inside.

    Another option is sexual tourism (plane tickets are cheap) to a place where prostitution is legal.

    most men who are getting real action don’t find this to be either necessary or appealing. A few rare examples like Charlie Sheen do not disprove this.

    Here are some other names :
    Eliot Spitzer
    Errol Flynn
    Hugh Grant
    Wayne Rooney (an English footballer)
    Jerry Springer

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/galleries/2008/03/10/famous-johns-exposed.html

    The url above has a whole list of rich/powerful/famous men caught with prostitutes. My conclusion is that the rare exception isn’t that rare. These aren’t nerdy accountants or software engineers that we’re talking about; they’re athletes, entertainers, and politicians with a great deal of charisma. So if using escorts is such a poor alternative, why are they doing it?

    Note that VR Sex *will* achieve this goal far more effectively than prostitution and the associated risks and costs.

    Agree 100% there – VR sex will blow the doors off the sexual market in terms. I fully expect it to put most prostitutes out of business, as well as cause feminism to implode.

    About becoming a ‘star’ to get women.
    Only if it is an audience-performing field.

    Again, I agree with you on this point. That’s why I mentioned the minor leagues, indie bands, and other venues. They all have groupies even though they’re not top-of-the-line performers.

  45. In my comment:
    “Agree 100% there – VR sex will blow the doors off the sexual market in terms”.

    This is what I meant to say:
    “Agree 100% there – VR sex will blow the doors off the sexual market in terms of safety, convenience, and physical appeal”.

  46. I’m still looking for evidence that Alek Novy is sockpuppeting, involved with LR & Denise Romano, & all the other crap he’s accused of. So far no one has even attempted to provide any evidence whatsoever. The longer this goes on, the more I’m convinced it’s BS.

    I’m opposed to an ideological litmus test based on belief in game in principle, and what is going on with Alek on one end & Susan Walsh on the other show how stupid it is. A solid MRA like Alek fails the game test and has what I can only describe (at least until evidence is provided) as a litany of conspiracy theories about him. Yet Susan Walsh passes the game test, even though as the last 2 weeks have shown us, she is doing nothing but attempting to get men to sign themselves up for the slaughter house of the divorce industrial complex.

  47. Oh, oh, I get it, so it’s like, 87.333 percent of toddlers, 37.999 percent of adolescents, 33 percent of women who own chia pets, and like 90%of Martins won’t ever ever ever understand game – because, you know, it’s just like so complex!

    And it’s so cool too, if someone notices something stupid or contradictory in game, we can just say they don’t “get”it! Yeah, çause THAT’S never been done before in religions and cults!

    We gamers are so awesome1

  48. Serious question – How would we be able to tell if someone genuinely does not understand what game is, or if you are just using that line to shut people up who notice something stupid about game?

    I mean, it seems that it would be awfully easy to just say the guy doesn’t “get” it when the reality is you just want to silence debate. It’s a pretty well known tactic.

    So what is your criteria for whether a guy “understand” game? Is it simply that anyone who disagrees with game doesn’t “get” it? That really seems the way you are using the term “understand” – as a synonym for “does this person agree with me”. This is extremely common in cults and religions. I mean, I’ve seen you spit out that line all the time, but Ive NEVER seen you actually give a definition of game that we independent observers could use to judge if guys.

    So here is a challenge – give a brief one or two paragraph definition of game, and I will explain in one or two paragraphs why I think it is feminist/woman-pandering/and ineffective, and you tell me if I merely failed to “get” it…….or if I simply disagree with you and you have been using that line simply to mean people who disagree with game. Nothing long-winded, no long debates…..we are both limited to 2 paragraphs.

    Any bets on whether a certain commenter will take up the challenge? Don’t hold your breath….

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