Mar 232011
 

I couldn’t use the standard Capt. Picard Double Facepalm pic with this post.  What I’m about to talk about is so bad that I had to introduce Godzilla facepalm.

Some women responded to my post on the lack of marriage quality women.  The first one is here, and the second one is here.  These are excellent examples of several female thought patters in action such as the rationalization hamster and treating political issues as personal ones.  But before we get to the posts from Paige and Wifey, take a look at this comment on Wifey’s post from Lily:

Kathy, I think PMAFT is the one who attacked Amanda about her post on abortion. She said that she thought partner should have a say in abortion, it would be wrong not to. I think she made a comment like why shouldn’t he get a say when he’d even get a say in buying a sofa at Ikea. And it got made into evil feminist girl says having an abortion is like shopping for a sofa at Ikea.

When did this happen and who is Amanda?  Answer: It didn’t and I have no clue who Amanda is.  Maybe Lily dreamed that I said that.  Plenty of women have had that confusion before.  The fact that this post has to be started with me getting accused of something that I know nothing about is very telling about what else we will encounter.

Both Paige’s and Wifey’s post ignore at least 50% of my original post just to claim I’m “melodramatic”, have a “melodramatic soul”, and a “drama queen”.  As anyone who actually read my post could tell, I’m addressing socon and tradcon views of (modern) marriage and the state of modern womanhood.  It’s not about me, and both of them tried to make it about me.

Paige claimed that I want the domestic skills of a “Martha Stewart” in a woman.  In reality my standard for this sort of thing is quite low.  Most women now will not make good wives and mothers.  It’s not about expecting Martha Stewart.  Being married to Martha Steward would be nightmare.

Wifey takes it way farther.  She goes straight for code pink shaming language:

As for the rest of it — entitlement princessery, hatred for men, blah blah blah, this is a complaint I only hear from one type of guy.  Hint: it’s not the type of guy women want.  I’ll agree, though, it is unfortunate for some of the betas out there that they are now expected to bring it.

Bring what?  This isn’t about me.  Anyone who has read this blog knows about what I have been doing (in general) with Sabrina and Kate.  This is reflexive shaming language pure and simple.  Rather than deal with reality, Wifey says “you can’t get laid” even when I am getting laid.  This is why most people have moved on to shaming language where I get called a womanizer, guilty of sinful behavior and accused of preying on weak women.  Wifey doesn’t stop there:

If, and only if, you, as a man, are saving yourself for your future wife — in other words, youare a virgin yourself, then fine.  Find a sexy virginal girl and marry away.  But if you’re not a virgin, then not only can you not complain, but you should be seriously worried about a girl past her teenage years who is still a virgin.

I have never “demanded a virgin”.  I’m not one myself and after having a threesome, I’m pretty far away from it.  My post was in reference to what the socons and tradcons promote as their system for marriage.  One of their standards is virginity until marriage, but that is not happening even among socon and tradcon women.  Rather than dealing with it, they blame men for it to the point of almost claiming that men are using Jedi mind tricks on women to effectively claim that women haven’t sinned in this area.  I am going to hold them to their standards.  It’s not about what I expect in a woman.  Then Wifey completely misses the point when it comes to expating.

Oh, right, because women who are willing to marry outside their culture/race/country are really going to be paragons of wifely femininity.  If she’s willing to deny her family, culture, country, and language for you, she wants your money.  If there’s one good thing we cansay about American women, it’s that they’re less — not to be confused with “not” — mercenary than other women.

When I talked about going expat, it was to limit the scope of what I was talking about.  Feminism is almost everywhere now but there are other countries that are not as feminist as the West, at least not yet.  If you’re a man and really want to get married that may be an option for you.  In those countries they don’t have anti-male marriage and divorce law yet.  This is a real problem to be dealt with.  The state of laws isn’t based on whether I’m getting laid or not.

The idea that American women are less likely to be golddiggers than foriegn women is laughable.  It’s a common thread throughout the comments of Wifey’s post since the women there have their rationalization hamsters on overdrive.  You can run your hamsters at infinite speed but it still won’t make you marriage quality.

Wifey then ends her comment with some joke of a paragraph from Obsidian.  There’s a lot of problems with that but I will focus on just one.  It doesn’t make sense since I am getting women.  I could have posted a video of my threesome with Sabrina and Kate but Wifey still would have said that I can’t get laid.  Most of the guys Obsidian claims are failing at getting laid are in fact doing a lot better than him.  They just don’t kiss womens’ asses like he does (and that’s one of the reasons they’re doing better with women than him).

Even if I wasn’t getting laid it wouldn’t matter.  The issues don’t change.  It’s not about me.  It’s about socons and tradcons pushing marriage yet refusing to admit most women are not marriage quality (and refusing to admit that there are laws that need changing to make it safe for men to get married).  It’s about women failing to be marriage quality.  More and more men are evaluating marriage and have come to the conclusion that there’s nothing in it for them.  They are correct.  The men making this decision will be fine.  It the women who want to get married and the socons and the tradcons who want to push marriage who have to be worried.  If you want men to get married then you’re going to have to improve the product (and women are the product here). Insulting your customers, men, by claiming that they can’t get laid (especially when they are getting laid) isn’t going to work.

I could ask Sabrina or Kate to marry me today, and it’s a safe bet they would say yes.  Either one of them is better than 90% of women out there when it comes to marriage quality.  That still doesn’t mean marrying them is a good idea.  Things are so bad that Sabrina and Kate don’t meet a very low standard for marriage quality needed to get married.  Even if they met the standard, it doesn’t matter.  What about everyone else?  I’m not going to say, “I’ve got mine, screw you”.  This is a real problem, and it’s not about me.

  34 Responses to “It’s Not All About Me”

  1. Wifey isn’t a socon/trad. I am a trad but my post was meant to be humorous rather than a serious refutation of your point.

    I don’t think you are very specific. Like here you said most women won’t make good wives and mothers. Well, explain that.. what specific duties of a wife and mother can *most* women not manage?

  2. pmaft:

    first of all, thanks for reading my post, you lovely drama queen. second of all, thanks for all of the excellent assumptions. here’s my story: you don’t want to get married, fine. i don’t care, and guess what? i think it’s fantastic that people are choosing to get married if and when they want to, and not because “society thinks they should.”

    that said…

    ;Anyone who has read this blog knows about what I have been doing (in general) with Sabrina and Kate. This is reflexive shaming language pure and simple. Rather than deal with reality, Wifey says “you can’t get laid” even when I am getting laid.

    bravo, good sir. i’m happy for the sex that is happening in your life. of course, i never said you couldn’t get laid. nope, i said that the most adamant crazies who talk about women’s colossal entitlement attitudes are usually guys who don’t have a lot to offer, themselves. does that mean these guys can’t get laid? no, unlike the rest of this ‘sphere, i don’t think everyone is walking around a sexless loser. most people are getting laid. sorry, but it’s true. people can whine on and on about the pareto principle (lookin at certain commenters), but most guys and most girls are getting laid. married, unmarried, whatever.

    and i don’t have a problem with that.

    look, i don’t care if people get married. my only real issue is with people — such as yourself, but forgive me if i misconstrued the words you wrote on your blog as being you point of view, when in fact they were not — who whine til the cows come home. the truth is, the world is not as pathetic and horrible as you — again, or others — paint it, and most people realize this. honestly, this positively pathetic MGTOW type attitude is something i’ve only had the honor of experiencing on the web, thank the heavens.

    i don’t want men to get married if they don’t want to get married. and honestly, the “movement” of MGTOW is hardly a blip on the radar, so even if i did care i’d be rather unconcerned about it. that said, what do you disagree with in obsidian’s quote? it has nothing to do with you, or anyone else, not getting laid, and everything to do with the changed face of the sexual marketplace — in which money is suddenly not a factor the way it used to be.

    as for the golddigger thing, that’s just poppycock…but i have to grab some z’s, so i’ll address that later if i feel like it

    • here’s my story: you don’t want to get married, fine. i don’t care, and guess what? i think it’s fantastic that people are choosing to get married if and when they want to, and not because “society thinks they should.”

      You took my original post very personally so I thought you were a socon or a tradcon.

      i said that the most adamant crazies who talk about women’s colossal entitlement attitudes are usually guys who don’t have a lot to offer, themselves. does that mean these guys can’t get laid? no

      That’s not what you said. You said, “As for the rest of it — entitlement princessery, hatred for men, blah blah blah, this is a complaint I only hear from one type of guy. Hint: it’s not the type of guy women want.” Are women having sex with guys they don’t want?

      If you think guys who have “little to offer” have no trouble getting laid, then what is the point you’re trying to make?

      what do you disagree with in obsidian’s quote?

      Everything. He doesn’t have “strong seduction skills”. Obsidian has been around the manosphere for a long time, and he’s descended into a joke. We have guys in the manosphere who are orders of magnitude better seducers then him but he goes around saying lots of guys in the manosphere aren’t getting laid even when they are. He has a thin skin when someone notices he has a lot less game than he claims. Last year on The Spearhead some guys realized that what he was doing in one case was more “anti-game” than game and he responded with a tirade about how everyone on The Spearhead can’t get laid, doesn’t take showers, and smells. This happened last year and he still obsesses about it.

      We know what Obsidian’s real deal is so quoting him the way you did was nothing but a laugh for us.

  3. Talking to women about marriage 2.0 is a complete waste of time. To them it works great and that’s because it does for them. They hold all the cards and can not only walk away from it anytime they want but get rewarded by the system to do so. Why any man would sign up for that deal is beyond me. When you walk away from the table all they have left is shaming which is completely inefective on most men who have already heard it all before. The game is over for them. Men realize that modern women are only good for a pump and dump maybe not even that when you take into account the high rate of STDs among them. I wouldn’t even waste my time responding to the shaming by trying to clarify what you said but only to point out the shaming for what it is and laugh at their bat shit crazy rationalizations.

    • Whether women can be marriage quality and whether the current marriage laws are fair and just are entirely different arguments.

      I didn’t even argue whether women are marriage quality, I just said that women can be molded in a relationship. But I certainly never said whether marriage laws are just. That is whole different debate.

  4. […] on Bitches Be CrazySusan Walsh on Bitches Be CrazyThag Jones on Bitches Be CrazyIt’s Not All A… on I’m Not Bad. I’m J…Kathy on If Women Were Apples- Another …Paige on If […]

  5. Please accept my sincere apologies for mistaking you for someone else.

    Don’t use my mistake to influence your opinion on wifey or Paige’s opinions. I just commented on wife’s blog for the first time yesterday.

  6. It’s been a while since you wrote about the Experiment. I think the last thing you discussed was Sabrina’s antics when you brought up a threesome. When are you going to give an update?

    • I will update when there’s something interesting to report. I doubt most here would be interested in notifications or tweets every time I bang Sabrina or Kate.

      • This is the first time you’ve mentioned that the threesome actually went ahead. And now you’re also implying that you’re boning Kate on the side part time with Sabrina’s knowledge.

        It is interesting to report. How did it end up happening? What conditions led to it? More importantly, how can I get my woman to do a threesome?

        • Yes, the threesome happened and I’m now banging Kate with Sabrina’s knowledge (and banging Sabrina with Kate’s knowledge). I haven’t said much about it since I didn’t feel the need to brag about it and I don’t feel the need to prove anything to anyone as I’m not Obsidian and his massive inferiority complex.

          As for how I convinced them to have a threesome, there were quite a few factors involved. Remember that Sabrina and Kate are both in their late 20s. They have gone into find a beta chump to marry and have kids with mode. I appear to make a tasty target for a woman’s golddigging, marriage digging, and baby digging impulses. My knowledge about game/knowledge about how women are hypergamous allows me to not get caught in their traps. Thus women think they have to do more to entrap me like agree to a threesome. If you haven’t already, you should be familiar with Dalrock’s bear and salmon analogy as it helps explain my situation.

          And a lot of it was plain old luck. I’m no expert at female manipulation nor do I claim to be one.

        • He is not telling you the real reason he can manipulate women into threesomes. He’s with the NWO and knows elite mind control techniques. He uses the techniques to make Sabrina and Kate do whatever perverted sexual filth he wants. Knowledge of elite mind control is common in the upper echelons of the NWO. Their targets become robots without realizing it. What do you think he means when he talks about sexbots? It’s not androids. It’s mind controlled women.

      • I certaintly would, provided your very forth coming on the minute, intimate details of the actual act.

  7. The obnoxious nature of many AW’s responses to your well thought out points is one more reason that AW are unsuitable for marriage. The internet has revealed these womyn’s inner nature. And it ain’t pretty.

    Of course, it does not have to be this way. AW could learn to comport themselves with a modicum of civility. It’s all the more odd when you consider how the latest fad among AW is to demand marriage — yet they do so little to make themselves desirable enough for a man to live with them ’till death do us part.

    Then again, marriage has simply become a temporary living arrangement between the walk down the aisle and the appearance before the divorce (kangaroo) court.

    • You guys take yourselves way too serious. You should be able to handle a little bit of poking and argument without getting your panties in a bunch.

  8. Can anyone figure out what, exactly, wifey is complaining about? AFAICT, she’s just upset that some men, somewhere, dare to say that increasing numbers of women aren’t worth marrying. How could they? How could they presume to judge the vagina’d sex, let alone find them anything less than wonderful, let alone … can one grasp the impudence … find most of them inferior to the option of being alone!

    Quick! To the fainting couch!

    Paige says: “Maybe the low-quality men need to either settle for the low-quality women or none at all (or overseas, if you can manage it).”

    This is just bizarre. Confronted with the argument that most women aren’t marriage quality, she magics into existence a shortage of marriage-quality men, and then suggests that … what exactly? They deserve what they get?

    She says that these men need to “settle” for low-quality women, no women, or ex-patting. Well … yeah. That’s a pretty exhaustive list of your options if you can’t secure a high-quality woman. Note that the list of options doesn’t change whether the reason that you can’t secure a good woman is your inherent losertude (as paige would have it), a shortage or high-quality women (as PMAFT would have it), or the ridiculous legal liabilities associated with Marriage 2.0 (as just about everyone would have it).

    In the wifey post/comments I seem to detect a desire on the part of the distaff commentators to define as a loser as any man who can’t get the woman he wants … such a failure is always an indictment of him, and never an indication of marketplace conditions. This is akin to imposing a lot of land-use restrictions that drive up the price of housing, and then attempting to shame anyone who complains about the reduced supply of affordable housing as a loser who can’t afford a decent place.

    Women just don’t seem comfortable with the fact that the real competition they face isn’t other women, it’s being alone … and that being alone, for a man, isn’t all that bad. In many ways, we were built for it.

    • Actually: I said “maybe there aren’t enough high-quality men?” I did not say that for sure there wasn’t. I have yet to see any kind of definition laid out by anyone as to what a marriage-quality man is.

      So long as we stay in the realm of the theoretical and say “there are not enough good women worth all the good men out there” then you can’t be held accountable for being right or wrong. Any one who disagrees is just an idiot.

      My theory is that very few PEOPLE in America are marriage quality. But you can’t really dispute that because all I have done is stated my theory without backing it up.

      • “there are not enough good women worth all the good men out there”

        Ah … I think I see the problem. It’s not my contention that there’s some sort of mismatch between the numbers of “good” men and women that disadvantages the men … it’s my contention that the number of women I would consider marriageable is very, very small, and appears, as a proportion of the population, to be much smaller than it was in my grandparent’s day.

        Whether or not men measure up to the standards of those women is not really relevant to my point: If only 5% of women are marriage-grade, there’s a serious wife shortage, as a low-quality man is better off alone than saddled with a low-quality wife. Low-quality wives are albatrosses in the modern world.

        These are two different observations:
        a.) “I can’t persuade a good woman to marry me.”
        b.) “There don’t seem to be any women worth marrying.”

        PMAFT is saying (b.), and y’all (wifey, you, etc.) are acting as if he’s saying (a.). No … they’re different statements.

        • The lack of MQ women creates a lack of MQ men..its a cycle.

          For example: When I was a sexually active 16 year old I had fantasies of marrying a Fitzwilliam Darcy type…. a bit hard-edged, but with a high level of integrity and gentlemanly conduct… but I was also well aware that this type was extinct (if it ever existed) and if he did exist then he was so high status he would be marrying an equally high status woman. So even at a young age my mind frame was one of settling for the best that I could get and NOT on making sure I was high quality. Why try to be high quality if there are so few men worth high quality, and I don’t have to try that hard to get the low-quality guys anyway?

          Based on what I have read this is the same mind-frame of most of the men…that there are simply not women worth being high quality for… but what seems to be ignored is how each genders attitudes feeds into the reality.

          Almost every woman eventually gets married because a lot of men are willing to eventually settle for an LQ woman. I can look around my social sphere and see with my own eyes that I have no need to fear perpetual singlehood. I can eventually find a man so long as I am willing to settle for fairly LQ…and of course the LQ gets lower the older I get.

          The original post I made that started this little tiff is that a woman will improve in quality however much she is required to by the man she is in-love with. The problem is that he has to be high-quality enough to sustain her love and men are content enough alone that they are not going to bother.

          It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Each gender says “there are no good men/women” and then the result is there are no good men/women…because we have erased all incentive to be good.

  9. The lack of MQ women creates a lack of MQ men..its a cycle.

    … I had fantasies of marrying a Fitzwilliam Darcy type … but I was also well aware that this type was extinct (if it ever existed) … So even at a young age my mind frame was one of settling for the best that I could get and NOT on making sure I was high quality. …

    Based on what I have read this is the same mind-frame of most of the men…that there are simply not women worth being high quality for…

    I think you illustrate how damaged the modern woman is when you equate a man’s desire for a good woman to your desire for Fitzwilliam-friggin-Darcy. If that’s your idea of the only kind of man who’s worth of a HQ woman, you’re nuts. Your decision to forgo efforts to be HQ because there aren’t lots of Mr. Darcys around isn’t driven by men’s failure to live up to the standard of Austen’s fictional apex alpha, it’s driven by the fact that somewhere along the line you lost all perspective. (And at 16, you lost it early!)

    I don’t think it’s really a cycle; specifically I don’t think LQ men cause LQ women. I think LQ women were generated (to a first approximation) by feminist propaganda and changes to the legal regime.

    • Well that was my standard as a 16 year old, which was 14 years ago. Though I think my current idea of HQ still disqualifies a large portion of men..it isn’t quite as high as it was then.

      Being a high-quality woman takes an enormous amount of self-discipline and virtue. The average “financially stable” American guy does not qualify just because he has a job and isn’t a total jerk. An HQ man would need to as self-disciplined, virtuous, and mature as he expects a woman to be.

    • Let’s go over this logically. All men who have taken the red pill knows marriage only benefits women. Therefore, any man who marries is taking a big risk in order to benefit only her! It is actually to a man’s advantage if he is not marriage quality! It is irrelevant whether a woman is marriage quality or not because she can simply pretend to be then show her true colors after marriage! Finally, I am making it known that VR girls is just 9 years away and robogirls plus artificial wombs is just 19 years away. This is well worth the wait as substitute women will be of the highest quality(aka perfect) and be of virtually no risk.

      • That depends on the personality of the man and how much he values companionship. You can’t paint all men with the same brush. NAMALT

  10. Seems to me that the real giveaway was the demand that beta males ‘bring it’ – isn’t that basically a way of complaining that the average guy is…. average? If they could ‘being it’ they’d be alphas, wouldn’t they?

    Meanwhile, what does the average female have to bring? Nada. Her mere presence is enough. No wonder they so bad at relationships – they’re already in a raging affair with themselves.

  11. Another thing too, PMAFT. Your point about virginity and marriage quality wives actually hit the nail on the head; the number of partners a woman has had directly correlates to her divorce rates:

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/why-sluts-make-bad-wives/

    A woman who goes to her wedding bed a virgin has a 75% chance of staying married after 10 years. That drops to 69% if she marries her only ever partner, but they did it before they got married. A woman with even one partner before her husband has a 52% chance of getting divorced within 10 years. A woman with 5+ partners before her husband has only a 30% chance of staying married in 10 years.

    So wifey can suck it. Chastity in women does matter, and makes them better wives.

  12. Paige wrote:
    As a Catholic myself I can tell you for certain that most men are not qualified for a Catholic Marriage because most would never commit to the rules (No B.C., No divorce/remarriage, etc)

    No one cares about that, with the possible exception of a certain resident in Vatican City. The Catholic clergy can’t even get its act together over its role in the Rwandan genocide or enabling of sex abuse of altar boys. Why should any man (religious or not) care about the Church’s position on birth control? I think you’re just bringing up a straw man to flog to deflect PMAFT’s argument about the lack of marriage quality women.

  13. […] Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech – “Where are the Marriage Quality Women? Nowhere“, “It’s Not All About Me” […]

  14. I have spent well over 30 days reading Roissy and the Spearhead. I am not in complete disagreement that women have not dropped in quality. In fact my original response was that women are moldable, not that they are inherently great.

    But to respond to each point you make:

    If 2/3s is correct then that still isn’t ALL..it is just barely most.

    I fail to see how experience with children is a must. Diaper changing and whatnot is not difficult.

    As far as pre-nups I think it depends on the specifics. Obviously I am going to want some portion of any wealth my husband and I build together should he decide he wants to leave the marriage.

    I can understand perfectly well that a marriage or even an LTR is not worthwhile for sex alone. If the man is the type that might seek a woman for more than that then it is hard to say that what is or isn’t worth it. For sex alone- I agree 100% with you that it is’t worth it at all. Milk is free now.

  15. Paige said :

    If 2/3s is correct then that still isn’t ALL..it is just barely most.

    Two-thirds of women being unsuitable for marriage is not troubling to you?

    This perfectly proves PMAFT’s point that there are way too few acceptable women to go around, which means the effort it takes to filter for one is too high.

    So you do agree that marriage is not a worthwhile risk for most men.

    Obviously I am going to want some portion of any wealth my husband and I build together should he decide he wants to leave the marriage.

    What about if YOU leave (since 70-90% of divorces are by the woman)? Do you still expect that HE should pay YOU? You should get not one dime if you leave on a ‘no fault’ basis.

    The person leaving should not receive custody of children either.

  16. I did not say it wasn’t troubling, but I also don’t know that I agree with that figure. Either way- 2/3s is not the same as all.

    Maybe there are too few quality women to go around. But maybe there aren’t enough quality men worthy of the quality women? Maybe the low-quality men need to either settle for the low-quality women or none at all (or overseas, if you can manage it).

    I am more than willing to issue blame where it is due, but when it comes to the travesty that is todays dating market there is plenty to go around.

  17. Nearly all women are “like that” and simply are incapable of logic. You are far too generous when in reality, 99% of AW are unfit for marriage. Of course Paige will play the NAWALT card. Don’t be surprised as more and more men go their way.

  18. I am not playing the NAWALT card, I am simply asking for specifics.

    I am not quite sure how the heck you are defining “good men” vs “good women”. How can something be “obvious” when I don’t know how “marriage quality” is defined for either gender?

    The one person who gave me a specific list put several things in that list that I would dispute as being a disqualifier for marriage- like experience with children.

    As a Catholic myself I can tell you for certain that most men are not qualified for a Catholic Marriage because most would never commit to the rules (No B.C., No divorce/remarriage, etc)

    I don’t know how a man qualifies for secular marriage because I know nothing about that.

    You guys are doing what so many feminists do… Ranting rather than debating. Which is fine…I will leave you to it…but don’t accuse women of being “too stupid to comprehend your argument” if you aren’t actually making an argument. If you took the time to make a well-formulated argument in defense of your position I might agree with it. As of right now the only thing I know for sure is that the tone sounds a bit hysterical.

  19. It’s funny now Paige is playing the NAMALT card. How many men will tell women that he’s “not like that?” very few. Most women claim they are “different”. This leads me to conclude that it’s men who are the “prize” and women are after men because women know they benefit from men while men know they don’t need women. Paige is “like that” and only cares about finding a sucker to marry her, support her and if she divorces, keep paying up by force.

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