Jun 142010

I have avoided weighing in on the circumcision debate until now.  While there are those who think this should be a main MRA issue,  it’s not something I think about.  I’m circumcised and since that is what I have always known, I don’t feel like I was violated or victimized.  I have to agree with Ferdinand.

That being said I do agree with the idea that if there is no reason to perform a surgery (such as circumcision) then it shouldn’t be done.  If I ever had any sons, I doubt I would have them circumcised.  Hestia provides a very compelling argument against circumcision.

I always try to take the pro-male position on anything so I started reading up on the pro vs. con arguments for circumcision.  Hestia’s post provides us a good pro-male reason to be against circumcision.  However, as I started investigating I realized that both sides of the circumcision argument have been feminized.  The pro-circumcision argument is obviously feminized.  Baby boys are having unnecessary operations done on them and the original reasoning had to do with stupid anti-masturbation arguments.

Just because one side is obviously feminized does not make the other side of an argument pro-male.  I started looking into the anti-circumcision argument and organizations and forums.  What I found was disturbing.  Rather than finding solid logical arguments on the anti-circumcision side such as medical procedures that are unnecessary should not be done and Hestia’s excellent point, I found a bunch of shrieking extremists just like Foseti did.  I expected to find more men making the anti-circumcision argument.  Instead I found a bunch of women.  These women were saying the craziest things such as that circumcised men couldn’t have sex properly.  One woman claimed that because most men in the US of her age were circumcised that she never really has had sex.  These women kept trying to convince circumcised men that they were permanently “damaged” and incapable of proper sex.  I even came across comments from this one woman, a mother, who by default had her first son circumcised.  After seeing the pain her oldest son went through she and her husband didn’t have their subsequent sons circumcised.  That sounds reasonable except after that she went on to talk about over and over how “damaged” her son was and how she couldn’t look at her son without knowing that his dick has been permanently harmed.  She said that she couldn’t stop thinking about how her oldest son would never be able to really have sex.  I have been circumcised and I have had no trouble with sex.  The only reason this woman’s oldest son will have any problems is not because of circumcision but because his mother is a loon that is obsessed with her son’s dick.  No one on this anti-circumcision forum noticed how bizarre and creepy it was to think about a son’s dick.  These women were not concerned with the boys circumcision was actually happening to.  Notice how it’s all about them.  It’s a form of attention whoring.

Knowing this I realized that anti-circumcision can be used by women to hide their anti-male attitudes.  I’m sure there are plenty of women who will claim to be not anti-male because they are “against circumcision”.  After boys are a week old these women will throw them to the wolves.  When it counts with issues such as the sexual harassment industry, the false rape industry, or the divorce court system these women will be solidly anti-male.  A man who is the victim of one of these things isn’t going to care if he has his foreskin or not.

A while back I read a man say that there are two things that the MRM should not concern themselves with, abortion and circumcision.  I still have to agree because there are separate anti-abortion and anti-circumcision organizations and both are used as cover for women to hide how they are anti-male.

  17 Responses to “Both Sides Of The Circumcision Argument Have Been Feminized”

  1. It is very wrong to suggest that men are somehow damaged or incomplete for having been circumcised. I’m with Ferdinand, you, and others on this.

    I live in a society where circumcision is practically unheard of, so perhaps this colours my view a little differently.

    To me, it is an absurd and violent attack on the most private areas of newborn boys. What better welcome into a world that celebrates male suffering than to have their genitals permanently altered against their will?

    But, I do appreciate the fact that it’s not a big deal – or any kind of deal – for the men who are themselves circumcised.

    I guess this puts me on the fence. I cannot see it in any way other than as bizarre cruelty. On the other hand, it clearly doesn’t result in problems for the vast majority of men who are circumcised. There are many more important issues – they are the ones which cause male suffering. You’ve listed some of them above.

    • you are wrong. simply put.
      i am circ as well and i can say this is 100% medical true to say this is incomplete or even damaged.
      just watch some med videos of it..

      if someone cuts off you ear just a bit – is it not damaged??? incomplete ??

  2. Circumcision is such a delicate topic, and I was hesitant before I raised it on The Spearhead as I didn’t want to come across as somebody telling men they need to feel like victims if they don’t want to. If a man is regretful about his circumcision, he is entitled to feel that way, but so is the man who is at peace with the procedure.

    Before Peapod was born, I spent a LOT of time on the MotheringDotCommune forums researching a variety of birth, breastfeeding, and parenting issues and was honestly astounded that a bunch of self-described peace loving hippie mothers could be as caustic and hateful as some of the more venomous members of the forums were.

    Some of the arguments against circumcision often crossed the line and were much like what you read about, stating that men were damaged and could never enjoy sex, blah blah. As anti-circ as I am, there is a fine line between weighing the pros & cons for your own child, educating others about circ and being a hateful bitch. If a woman would seriously end a relationship with a man, or never start one, based solely on what his penis looks like, that’s more than a little disturbing and, frankly, doesn’t make her all that much better than the people she despises for making the cut. The procedure is cruel, yes, but so also is despising a man for something that was out of his control. (I’m wondering how women figure this out. Do they advertise on an online dating site “must be intact” in their requirements?!”

    I wouldn’t go so far to say that circumcision should be excluded from the MRM as society needs to take the health issues of men seriously, whether this be honest info about circ or frank discussions about testicular and prostate cancers, but at the same time there are bigger fish to fry at this point in time. Those of us who care about these issues can educate others when the opportunity arises, but society simply isn’t ready to give a care about men just yet.

  3. I agree PMAFT, that focusing together on abortion would be just as unhelpful as focusing on circumcision, in that it divides not only along lines of religion and secularist (and thus, divides men within the manosphere), but also, as with circumcision, one can find anti-male arguments advanced on both sides of the issue by feminists, who are indeed divided along lines of progressive / pro-choice on one side, and Sarah-Palin / “conservative feminists” / “Feminists For Life” http://www.feministsforlife.org/ on the other, both of whom are anti-male and pedestalizers of women.

    Let’s avoid getting side-tracked into fruitless internal debates that waste time, energy, and resources.

    • The evidence seems to be that circumcision provides some marginal benefit in that it lessens the probability of getting STDs.

      How many infants get STDs from unprotected sex, again? There might be STD-protection benefits; how about letting him make that decision when the time comes.

  4. I still have to decide what to do when our son is born in October.

    The evidence seems to be that circumcision provides some marginal benefit in that it lessens the probability of getting STDs. The downside is a loss of nerves and a surgery.

    I guess since I expect the future to be a sexual dystopia filled with roving bands of over-sexed “feminists,” I should probably have the surgery done. A man born in 2010 is going to need all the help he can get.

    • “I still have to decide what to do when our son is born in October.”

      Do you hate your unborn child so much that you’re seriously considering mutilating his genitals without his permission?

      “The evidence seems to be that circumcision provides some marginal benefit in that it lessens the probability of getting STDs. The downside is a loss of nerves and a surgery.”

      How about you’ll be a responsible parent and teach him not to bareback crackwhores and random bar sluts?

      • How about you’ll be a responsible parent and teach him not to bareback crackwhores and random bar sluts?

        Exactly right. I am highly skeptical that being cut offers much protection in any case.

        My own view, for my own sons, was that this was an unnecessary operation and any “downsides” could be avoided with proper hygiene and behavior later in life.

        Fortunately the hospital said the default option was uncut, i.e., they weren’t going to do it unless we specifically asked for it.

  5. I don’t see the point of making it a genderist issue at all. Babies of any sex shouldn’t have part of their genitals cut off by anyone of any sex without compelling medical reason. Intactivists, as we call ourselves, are of all sexes, races, religions, etc. We are cut men who resent it, intact men who enjoy what we have and want others to enjoy it, mothers who regret having circumcised babies, or didn’t and have had no problems, nurses who have had to comfort circumcised babies and been told to lie to their mothers about how “it didn’t hurt”, doctors who have to deal with botched circumcisions and lawyers who have had to deal with the actions that result,

    And it is obviously untrue that circumcised men can’t enjoy sex, but it ought to be obvious that cutting off a uniquely mobile, richly innervated organ from the penis can only improve sex when something was previously wrong, and, other things being equal, must make it worse. Whatever, that is a decision for the penis’s owner to make and nobody else.

  6. Because millions of years of evolution made our dicks wrong?

  7. […] Tech – “Both Sides of the Circumcision Argument Have Been Feminized“, “This is Not a Disinformation […]

  8. I am looking for someone to do an expose’ on a custom. I am a nurse in newborn nursery. The pain that sweet tiny baby boys go through during a circumcision horrifies me. It is surgery without anesthesia. It is 10 minutes of pure hell. The pain is so horrendous that many babies go into shock immediately. They just stare and make gurgly noises. They are the lucky ones. The others remain perfectly aware of the pain that goes on and on. Their piercing screams haunt me.

    In history, the earliest surgery was done without anesthesia. Just tie them down and do it quick. Some people were willing to have surgery once. But I’ve read that people refused to endure surgery a second time – even if it meant death. They knew how severe the pain was, and decided they would rather die than endure that pain a second time.

    How can intelligent, educated people not realize that a scalpel causes a horrendous, sharp, excruciating pain that no human being should ever have to endure. Tell me how a custom can be so strong that it overpowers intelligence and common sense.

    For example, the Chinese custom of “binding” young girls’ feet. The toes were forced down under the foot [ breaking bones, I believe ] and tightly bound forever. So the feet couldn’t grow. Forever small. Big feet were considered UGLY. No one would marry a girl with big feet. Can you imagine the pain? Americans are not under the influence of Chinese customs and from a distance, we are apalled! But in China, even after a law was passed against foot-binding, some parents would still do it – knowing that they were going to prison. That is how strong a custom can be. It can cloud judgement.

    The pain of circumcision wouldn’t be quite as bad if the foreskin was fully developed at birth. But it is still adhered to the glans [ head of the penis ] and does not separate naturally for several years. Mother Nature may be slow, but it produces an exquisitely sensitive sexual organ.

    The first step of a circumcision is to rip the adhered foreskin off the glans using a metal probe. But the two skins are still fused as one. And patches of skin are ripped off the glans in the process. I see the glans of these tiny penises with skin missing and the tissue exposed every day. The pain is supposed to be comparable to having a metal probe forced under your fingernail and ripping it back and forth until the fingernail comes off. Imagine the pain! It is now recommended that a pain block be used. But it is not a law. So only a few babies get it.

    So why do we do it? Because it is what we are used to. A custom. Explain that to a baby that is enduring a pain that no human being should ever have to endure!

    There are many other reasons not to circumcise. It is removing the best skin of the penis. The foreskin contains approx. 20,000 specialized nerves that enhance sexual pleasure. The skin remaining is crude and has only a fraction of the sensation. The foreskin is NOT extra skin. It is there so that the penis can get longer during an erection. It is designed to unfold and stretch out, allowing the penis to grow. In the process, the foreskin is pulled off the glans. The glans is then uncovered and now the intact penis looks the same as a circumcised penis. They end up looking the same during an erection. But the intact penis is larger and has more sensation.

    Over the years, doctors have invented excuses for circumcision and the public latches onto them. These excuses are false and misleading. There is no reason good enough to inflict such sharp, excruciating pain on someone you love. To forever decrease his sexual pleasure. To amputate the best, most sensitive part of his penis. To violate his human rights.

    As I watch parents hug and kiss their new babies. Then insist that their babies endure a pain that is comparable to a fingernail being ripped off with a metal probe. And then a scalpel cuts – with no anesthesia. I want to scream, “Do you love your baby, or hate him?”

    There are many organizations that would help you with an expose’. They are easy to find on the internet. Please help! Babies are weak. This custom is strong.

  9. I can’t believe anyone who call themselves a MRA wouldn’t be upset at the practice of genital mutilation of our young boys at birth. What little benefits the procedure may provide don’t outweigh the many downsides and risks of a botched circumcision. Then there’s the pain the infant feels during the procedure. All for what, because feminists like the look of a circumcised penis more?

    Being a custom isn’t a good enough excuse. There are plenty of customs that have been banned, and this one is long overdue.

  10. […] hate the circumcision debate because both sides of the circumcision debate have been taken over by women.  The last time I wrote an article about circumcision, I took a look at some comments from women […]

  11. […] hate the circumcision debate because both sides of the circumcision debate have been taken over by women.  The last time I wrote an article about circumcision, I took a look at some comments from women […]

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