Apr 202010
 

Some people (*cough* Dave in Hawaii *cough*) will tell you things like how the Federal Reserve supposedly owns close to half of all US government debt.  This is supposed to be part of some plot of bankers profiting from continual inflation or some such.  Let’s look at the facts on this.

Let’s take a look at the pie chart that Dave used to claim that the Federal Reserve owns close to half of all US government debt.  There’s a section in blue for Federal Reserve and Intragovernmental Holdings.  Most of you are probably already asking aren’t those two separate categories merged together.  Yes they are.  Anyone when making a pie chart can combine or separate categories as they see fit.  Debt held by the Federal Reserve is just that.  Intragovernmental Holdings is debt held by government agencies such as the Social Security Trust Fund and the Medicare Trust Fund.  At this point many of you must be asking how do we know what the percentages for each part of the blue section are.  From the pie chart we don’t.  Dave in HI will point to this as evidence that it’s nearly all the Federal Reserve yet more investigation is needed to make such a claim.

Let’s do that investigation and see if Dave in HI is right.  Let’s use numbers from June 2008 to be completely consistent.  I went to Treasury Direct which publishes debt amounts for the US government.  I used a date of 6/30/2008 because I want to be consistent with the pie chart.  (If you want to repeat this test be sure to use that date so you do everything consistently.)  As of June 2008 the debt amounts are:

Total debt: $9,492,006,123,003.80

Intragovernmental Holdings: $4,206,942,429,625.55

Debt held by the Public: $5,285,063,693,378.25

The public that Debt held by the Public refers to is everyone outside of the US government.  This also includes foreign governments and entities (i.e. China and Japan).  The number for Intragovernmental Holdings is just for Intragovernmental Holdings or otherwise it would say Federal Reserve and Intragovernmental Holdings.  If you don’t believe this, then let’s test it.  We have the total debt so let’s multiply that by the percentage of the blue section on the pie chart:

49.37% * $9,492,006,123,003.80 = .4937 * $9,492,006,123,003.80 = $4,686,203,422,926.98

Notice how the debt amount for the blue section of the pie chart is greater than Intragovernmental Holdings.  Since its bigger by over $400 billion it’s not a rounding error.  Let’s get the total debt that is owned by the Federal Reserve by subtracting Intragovernmental Holdings from the blue section of the pie chart amount:

$4,686,203,422,926.98 – $4,206,942,429,625.55 = $ 479,260,993,301.43

The Federal Reserve had a little over $479 billion dollars of US government debt in June 2008.  That’s around 5% of US government debt not nearly half.  You don’t have to take my word for it. All of these numbers are published.  Repeat my calculations.  Prove it to yourself.  I’m not the one asking you to believe in shadowy plots by bankers with no evidence.  I am giving you hard numbers that are published and available to anyone.  Run the same test that I did.

Here are some other things about the Federal Reserve.  The Federal Reserve Board of Governors is an agency of the US government not a private corporation.  This is why Congress can force the Federal Reserve to focus on “maximum employment” that it can’t do to a regular private business.  The Federal Reserve does not generate a profit for itself.  Nearly all of its profits (around 95% consistently since 1914) end up in the US Treasury where they have to go by law.  Nearly all of the $45 billion that the Federal Reserve made in 2009 when to the US Treasury.  I know someone is going to say what about the 6% dividend that the Federal Reserve has to pay banks that have to by law buy its shares.  Add up the profits banks made in 2009 from their Federal Reserve shares.  It’s nowhere near $45 billion.

It’s possible to produce hard numbers since all of these things are published and available to anyone.  If you want to make a different claim, produce numbers that pass basic math or its BS.

I’m not getting into whether the Federal Reserve, fiat money, the gold standard, etc. are good or bad ideas.  There are good arguments for both sides.  However, false facts and claims of secret plots by bankers aren’t good arguments.  You can argue against the Federal Reserve without pulling a conspiracy out of your ass.

  16 Responses to “Debunking Conspiracy Theories With Basic Math”

  1. Excellent! For a very simple way to debunk conspiracy theories, consider the fact that humans can’t keep their mouths shut and the more people who know about a crime or plan, the more risk there is the dirty details will be leaked out. A formula should be composed to figure out the ‘facts made bare and public risk’ of all conspiracy theories.

    There are enough honest to goodness conspiracies in the world where more do not need to swirl about. 9/11 was a conspiracy regardless of which side a person believes. A group of evil people got together and made a treacherous plan to hijack airplanes and crash them into buildings to teach America a lesson.

  2. ” You don’t have to take my word for it. All of these numbers are published. ”

    Of course, the USA government has a habit of lying in print, when it thinks it can get away with it, so published numbers have to be taken in context.

    http://www.shadowstats.com/

    for example, goes into detail on how the USA lies with statistics.

    Figures don’t lie, but liars do figure.

    I haven’t examined Dave in Hawaii’s original claim, so I’ll have to do that before I comment on whether you have indeed rebutted his claim. I hope he’ll take the trouble to address this.

    • Without some hard numbers or a shred of evidence you’re guessing at best. Otherwise you don’t know why or how the US government is lying to you. These numbers are the only hard information I have. I looked at shadowstats and couldn’t even find anything there to disagree with this. Anything else is pulling it out of your ass.

      I know I will be accused of being a stooge for the US government/Illuminati/reptile aliens/etc. I am not a stooge of the US government, but that doesn’t make me a stooge for your stupidity either.

  3. I typed out a long response here…but your moderation wouldn’t allow it because it had more than 5 hyperlinks in it – so I posted it on my blog: A Mistake Does Not Mean De-Bunked.

  4. They’re coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!
    They’re coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa
    To the funny farm. Where life is beautiful all the time and I’ll be
    happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they’re
    coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!!!

    They’re coming to take me away, ha-haaa,
    They’re coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa.
    To the happy home. With trees and flowers and chirping birds and basket
    weavers who sit and smile and twiddle their thumbs and toes and they’re
    coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!

    • Why yes nova….because everyone knows that the way the mainstream media portrays politics and economics must surely be as accurate and reality-based as the portrayal of gender roles and the oppression of females!

      Only crazy loonies would ever question the mainstream view of history, economics and the Federal Reserve and it’s role….

      RIght?!?!? RIGHT?!?!!?

      • everyone knows that the way the mainstream media portrays politics and economics must surely be as accurate and reality-based as the portrayal of gender roles and the oppression of females!

        The mainstream media doesn’t portray politics and economics the way I portray it.

        Conspiracy theories do effectively claim the same portrayal of gender roles and the oppression of females as the mainstream media does. “Depopulation agenda” conspiracy theories are anti-male as they implicitly say that any man who does the smart thing by not getting married and not having kids under the current misandarist regime is a stooge for the NWO/Illuminati/reptile aliens/whatever.

  5. […] Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech – “Debunking Conspiracy Theories With Basic Math” […]

  6. […] and shaming language.  If you want to take them on then do so in a dispassionate manner a la PMAFT.  Personally, I don’t worry about truthers and other conspiracy theorists.  They’ll […]

  7. Mathematicse with out you; Quote.

  8. \*
    Mathematicse with out you; Quote.
    */

  9. Mathematics proves conspiracies.But some conspiracy theories cannot be proven. Like the CT that 19 Muslims hijacked 4 airliners and foiled the greatest defense network in the history of the world under the guidance of an old man living in caves, near death undergoing dialysis treatments, who could not be located until 10 years after his death from renal failure..

    However, let’s look at conspiracies that are proven by mathematics

    http://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/conspiracy-theories-and-mathematical-probabilities/

    It is an interesting exercise to calculate mathematical probabilities of so-called “conspiracy theories”. The mainstream media and their cadre of online gatekeepers use the term “Conspiracy Theorist” (CT) as a derogatory label for those who seek the truth. According to the media, there are never conspiracies. But they avoid factual discussions based on the scientific evidence.

    These myths are promoted non-stop in the mainstream media.
    – Oswald acted alone in 1963 – with a magic bullet and defective rifle.
    – Bush won Florida in 2000 and had a 3 million “mandate” in 2004.
    – Nineteen Muslims armed with box cutters who could not fly a Cessna, hijacked four airliners and outfoxed the entire U.S. defense establishment – while Bin Laden was on dialysis, near death and hiding in caves.

    But the media can’t refute the mathematics that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a massive conspiracy to hide the truth of these events from the public.

    • Great post Richard

      Now add feminism forced all our courts & legal system, to pay child welfare, & steal people’s property & life’s income … by coincidence …

      Now factor in a police-state & state enforced mass immigration, all in the space of 50 years …

      All a coincidence of being a wealthy first world country …

      Even though the U.S & the U.K have been first world countries for centuries …

      It’s pretty obvious who the REAL conspiracy theorists really are …

      The anti-conspiracists …

    • Mathematics proves conspiracies.

      You don’t understand what math is, but I wouldn’t expect you to.

      But some conspiracy theories cannot be proven. Like the CT that 19 Muslims hijacked 4 airliners and foiled the greatest defense network in the history of the world under the guidance of an old man living in caves, near death undergoing dialysis treatments, who could not be located until 10 years after his death from renal failure..

      Since that’s not a conspiracy theory, these sentences are gibberish.

      The mainstream media and their cadre of online gatekeepers use the term “Conspiracy Theorist” (CT) as a derogatory label for those who seek the truth.

      The only truth is that your head is up your ass.

      According to the media, there are never conspiracies.

      The media like all other sane people doesn’t believe that the world is run by a cadre of devil worshiping shape shifting reptiles from another planet.

      These myths are promoted non-stop in the mainstream media.

      I just went through all of my TV channels and radio stations. None of them were talking about Oswald, Bush, or Bin Laden. So much for your non-stop promotion.

      – Oswald acted alone in 1963 – with a magic bullet and defective rifle.

      Bullets aren’t magic and neither is the repair of firearms, at least for anyone with an IQ above 50. You point the rife and pull the trigger. If it’s aimed at JFK, he dies. There’s nothing magic about that.

      – Bush won Florida in 2000 and had a 3 million “mandate” in 2004.

      Sorry that you didn’t like the results of those elections.

      – Nineteen Muslims armed with box cutters who could not fly a Cessna, hijacked four airliners and outfoxed the entire U.S. defense establishment – while Bin Laden was on dialysis, near death and hiding in caves.

      It’s not to point a plane at a building and go. You don’t need to be certified to fly a Cessna to do that. Being on dialysis didn’t make Bin Laden an invalid.

  10. Oh boy, I just came across your response. It speaks for itself. Your comments are hysterical. Every one of them. Did you graduate HS? What is your math background? I have three degrees in Applied Math. How many do you have? You have not refuted anything in the post I linked to. When you can rebut the math proofs, get back to us. In the meantime, go fly a Cessna.

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